I'm seeing sexism everywhere.

[elephantandcastlel]

I'm beginning to feel very sad for the society and culture that we live in.

I don't know whether I'm just getting old, but I'm seeing so much casual sexism that I just didn't notice before.

For example I ended up having a huge row with dp at the weekend and I'm seeing him in a totally different light.

We were watching xfactor and I noticed that a lot of the male acts had female dancers, barely dressed dancing around them as if to make out they are done kind of stud.

Then we got onto the subject of the Moto go and how they have women standing there with high heels, short skirt and low cut top holding a fucking umbrella for the sportsman. I just think it's crazy and that these young women are being paraded like show horses.

Dp said that I was being daft and that they obviously enjoy it and get well paid, and I argued that most don't get well paid and are doing it hoping to hit the big time, most don't and have chucked away their youth parading around like pieces of meat.

I asked him how he's feel if we had a dd and she wanted to do this for a living and he said that he'd support her 100%, I then asked how he'd feel if ds wanted to do that and he burst out laughing and said "as if he'd do that", to me that was very telling. He wants ds to have a career if course, a respected career, use his brains, but it's good enough for a woman.

There are so many accepted acts of sexism, men beeping at women from their cars and vans. I stood in a bus stop about a year ago and I couldn't about 5-6 beeps and things shouted at me from vans. Dp thinks that this is life and men are aroused by women and it's normal.

I then mentioned the inequality in sport, the fact that we have an excellent women's football team who get barely any airtime, and women don't even get a look in with other sports. Dps response was that they're not very good and if they were they'd be on TV because what men wouldn't want to watch good looking women running around in shorts and riding a motorbike.

I felt like banging my head against the wall by this point.

Films I used to watch and enjoy are becoming unwatchable due to the sexist undertones.

I might feel a little like this because sexism has had an adverse affect on my life, I suffered from it from my father, my ex partner, I get it at work.

I hear men at work slating women who are overweight or who dress gender neutral or have their hair short despite then being no male model themselves.

It's making me miserable and I wish that I was blissfully ignorant to it.

Yes, it's shit isn't it.

Have you seen the everyday sexism project OP. It makes fairly depressing reading, but it's very positive that woman can pool their experiences and hopefully raise awareness of how deep-grained sexism is in our society.

everydaysexism.com

When they make a little feminist island to live on I'll see you there.

When women's football starts making the money that men's football does, they'll get the airtime. Women are not, as a rule, especially interested in football at all, regardless of which sex it's being played by. The problem is not that men don't care enough about women in sport, it's that women don't care enough about women in sport. If they did, then women's matches would be drawing the same sorts of crowds as men's matches. Who is to blame for that? Men?

And the female contestants on X factor do also get scantily clad, ripped men writhing around them too - it's not a total one way street.

About your other points, I agree.

I would guess those dancers have done multiple qualifications, studied hard, practiced hard, sacrificed quite a bit, auditioned variously and be rather pleased they are dancing on a prime time show.

I saw successful girls actively pursuing their talents and dreams with hard work and dedication.

You saw pieces of meat.

charming.

It's not the dancing, dancing is a wonderful career, it's the context, at times it's on par with stripping, imo.

I agree, elephant, I thought exactly the same when my son had X-Factor on in the background on Saturday night. It is many more times likely that the fully clothes men will have scantily dressed women writhing around near them than the other way round. I know I could take a stand and turn it off, but actually, I use it to discuss these things with my growing children (9 and 7). I constantly point out these sorts of inequalities. I am quite sure I am driving them mad, but I hope I am also opening their eyes to what is going on around them and not they're not just going to tacitly accept it.

Boomtown, why do these women who have trained so hard in their chosen career (dance), have to showcase their talents wearing barely any clothes?

I think that there are different ends of the spectrum when it comes to dancing. Dancing is of course an incredible talent, but is it necessary to be barely dressed and at times gyrating around some guy? There was one point a week or so ago where they were literally making sex moves and faces.

Miley Cyrus is talented and has worked hard, it doesn't mean that she isn't being exploited, it doesn't mean that that times her acts don't go in to the culture that women's bodies are there solely for the entertainment of others.

I imagine dancing is a difficult career to crack into and that at times dancers have to take what work they can get.

Dancing is, by its very nature, often a sensual and erotic art that frequently mimics the rhythms and movements of sex. It is supposed to titillate. It is closely linked to sex and always has been. It's just a fact of life.

Apart from Morris dancing obviously.

In fact the whole purpose of dancing is/was always to get people all fired up, either for war, or for sex.

No it wasn't, what a ridiculous claim.

Dancing has been a major part of cultures throughout the world, in fact it's only our present time I can think of that dancing has become marginalised.

I agree with the comments about it being all about girls wearing as little as possible and sexually gyrating around. On a related note I wonder when the first female pop star will simply make a video of herself hving sex and release it, with the bloke's face whited out and a 'You here' marker added. Disgusting. And simply released on the open market to young girls of all ages with no 'age restriction' of any kins.. A good healthy feast for their eyes.

I appreciate that, however there are lots of examples of dancing, male and female dancers that don't have the same undertones as what I am talking about.

And to 'successful' girls add 'lucky'. Plenty of girls want to be dancers, many with more talent than those that make it. Most of the difference is money. And being visual art-forms, appearance.

it is in athletics too, where men run in vests and shorts, women in bra and knickers. Don't tell me that women can't perform properly in slightly more clothes...

but as long as women are prepared to stand and pout to sell cars and so on, it will continue. No-one has to do that job, and if it pays very little, why on earth would anyone do it?

See this strikes me as women on women baiting. How dare they be young? Attractive?! Pah! Got no clothes on so obviously they are vacuous. Uneducated. Not worthy of my daughter being one. It's stripping! Just needs 'cheap sluts' added and it's all too hideously normal.

Everyday sexism. Women also capable of it.

'Dp thinks that this is life and men are aroused by women and it's normal'

And women are aroused by.... nothing? How do women manage not to beep horns and roar creepy nonsense at every passing man?

Ah yes but you see, men and women are different - men are stimulated visually while women

OP, congratulations on having your consciousness raised! Once you start noticing this stuff, you can't unsee it and it is indeed everywhere. You are completely right about the female dancers on X-Factor with barely anything on. And its all profoundly depressing.

However, there are lots of people around who do care about this stuff - hang around the Feminism boards on here for some good examples. And two things I learned along the way which help to keep me sane when I think I might explode with anger:

1. you cannot treat everything like The Battle of Waterloo. Some things you simply have to let go, even if you don't agree with them. Only you can decide what those things are for you.

2. many people don't ever think much about anything at all. There may well be a limit to what you can do to change this. Again, take it on a case by case basis. I do hope you manage to get through to your DP because heaven knows he needs to have his consciousness raised!

Good luck and welcome!

Special subject, from my limited knowledge I believe it comes from one of two things, low self esteem, or the belief that they're going to make it big.

Yes Boomtown, we're all dried-up jealous old cow bags who loathe other women really, especially thin and pretty ones Don't you know that feminists have no sense of humour???

Don't be too down about it OP. Being able to see it is one of the biggest steps forward when it comes to dealing with sexism. When you can get to the point where you can see it everywhere, you can start addressing it everywhere IYSWIM.

So whenever you see women getting unequal treatment or being faced with different expectations from men, you can point it out. You can teach your DC about it. You can counteract it by saying you don't agree. You can live equality yourself by refusing to go along with any of those unfair traditions, expectations etc.

It only takes all of us to see it that way (women and men) and we can end it. No, you can't make everyone else stop being sexist overnight but you can work to stop it in your own life and try to counteract it for your DC and set an example of how you expect to be treated fairly. For me, that (along with talking about it on places like here, to help me understand more about it and share views) is what being a feminist is.

Boomtownsuprise you couldn't be more wrong about me actually.

I think that a lot of women who end up doing promotions work, glamour modelling, page 3 and the like are in fact young and naive, and I wonder whether they are very often being exploited by big businessmen into almost selling their bodies.

On a second point, it is if course entirely up to them, they probably have choices, hopefully they have other choices available to them, perhaps they enjoy it.

But I firmly believe that the glamour industry sends out a horrible message to people everywhere, not only to young women but also to young men on what they are entitled to.

The beeping horns, the grabbing boobs and bums in bars, the fact that 1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted, the fact that the media scrutinises womens appearances far more than mens, it all tells me that we are in a culture where 'some' men feel entitled to a woman's body. And parading women about like show ponys adds to that.

I'm certainly not some old bitter jealous woman, I've just had my eyes opened up to a lot of things.

I too have recently felt the scales falling from my eyes, but then I wonder if I'm also seeing it where it isn't iyswim?

There is a radio ad at the mo, an older man handing something (made to sound like it's someone?) over to a younger man, obviously meant to be like 'handing over' his daughter for marriage. Turns out to be a Ford advert for buying a new car. Boils my piss.

I have an unhealthy (?) dislike for people making boob cakes for their 16/18/21 year old sons - you don't see many penis cakes given to girls of those ages, and for me perpetuates the myth that we have breasts solely for the males' titillation (pun intended!) or am I just a miserable old bat?

Boomtown

See this strikes me as women on women baiting. How dare they be young? Attractive?! Pah! Got no clothes on so obviously they are vacuous. Uneducated. Not worthy of my daughter being one. It's stripping! Just needs 'cheap sluts' added and it's all too hideously normal.

You're not really getting that it's not about proscribing or judging what women wear, do, how educated they are or what job they have. It's about the unfairness and the distorted, skewed set-up where it's women who end up in these decorative, sexually titillating roles in orbit around more valued and important men. Yes, it can happen vice versa but if inequality and patriarchy means there's a massive weighting towards women being seen as less important and valued for what they offer decoratively and sexually, while men are seen as doers, achievers etc.

That is not to blame the woman for her career decision, it's to lament the society that is far more likely to end up with her there than a man.

The same society that pays women less then men, expects women to value their careers less than men, puts pressure on women to appeal to men. The same society where rape, DV, sexual harassment etc etc are a hugely disproportionately aimed at women, by men.

Saying "Oh you don't want to let women have fun, it's a woman's free choice, feminists are ugly old cows who are jealous of pretty women" - is a classic tactic of those who don't get and fear feminism.

Feminism seeks after equality and a level playing field.

I love F1 and Moto GP but it makes me sad when the women just stand there like... objects. That's it really.

And whenever (shock horror!) a woman dares to write a newspaper article about sexism/any feminist related issues you can practically guarantee that most of the comments will be deeply sexist, telling them to shut up moaning, what about me etc... that sort of attitude. My DD is quite passionate about feminism we discuss it often; she recently told me that in her maths class (last yr), the teacher went out of the classroom for 2 minutes and a conversation happened between two boys in the room. It went something along the lines of one of them joking to the other that he had raped his sister, before imitating sex/gagging noises. Lovely. She is in the school 6th form now and the two boys don't go there anymore - I wish she'd have told me at the time so something could have been done, but she says sadly that it's the attitude of a lot of the boys there. She's also told me about the 'Lad Bible' which seems to be a FB page that posts jokey things/calls women 'wenches'/tells them to get back to the kitchen + make sandwiches etc.

Sexism is still a big problem and I think casual sexism only escalates into the 'bigger' problems, e.g. pay gap.