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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The "mean girl" is a product of capitalism

54 replies

peppaistired · 24/10/2014 14:34

I've been thinking about this for quite a while now. I am a feminist, I love women, I am a woman myself. I understand the battles we have to go through every day just for being a women. I defend women's position everywhere. However, there is one type of woman I cannot defend: the "mean girl".

Most women know exactly what I'm talking about. If you were a girl, a teenager, work with a group of women at work, you know the type of woman I'm talking about.

The one who makes you believe is your friend but back stabs you as soon as you leave the room. The one who bullies you in subtle ways so you never really know where you're standing with her. The one who's very charming with you in public, however, when the two of you are alone, she tells you horrible things. The one who looks down on you because you're not as pretty, as clever or as glamorous as her. The one who laughs at you because you're a bit clumsy, or naive, or doesn't know how to play the mean girl game as she does. The one who manipulates, cajoles, charms, has no back bone, but always seems to get away with it.

I thought and thought: "Where does this type of woman come from? How does she develop from being the manipulative girl to the boss from hell when she becomes an adult?

The more I thought, the more it seems to me that the mean girl is capitalism's bad smurfette. She's made believe from an early age that she's a princess. She consumes all that capitalism offers to her from a very early age with great delight and without much thought. She becomes a caricature of a woman from an early age, pursuing the ideal of the top model, the blonde celebrity, the glamorous girl, the corporate pawn, with a busy social life and a man to match. Of course, mean girls come in all shapes and packages, but there's something quite cruel and shallow about her, something that doesn't seem to be on women's side, quite the opposite. She always seems to have a gang of similar ones on her side, these are rarely lone fighters.

As societies become more industrialized, competitive, and corporate in values and ethos, it seems to me that this kind of woman/girl seems to thrive in it. And there's nothing to stop her.

These women are so detached from the things that make us wholesome, strong, and nurturing. There are a by product of a society that has gone wrong, somewhere along the way.

Women are so detached these days from areas of life that are predominantly female: the arts, physical and emotional expression, understanding of the human soul, nature and its circles. All the things that make us feel part of a fertile world of emotions, and feelings, and thoughts. A world where we plant our seeds and look after our children, give life and love to all others around us.

Women are great and have great potential for love, creativity and nurture. Capitalism in its stubborn chase of money, power and competitiveness is destroying little by little our female assets and powers. And then, instead of honest, wholesome, thinking, and feeling women, we get the toxic mean girls everywhere, spreading their nastiness, because it's the only way she can feel powerful in a world that has gone completely wrong for the female soul and spirit.

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 24/10/2014 14:45

Righty ho.

Some people are not nice. Some of those people are women.

Is that a fair summary?

messyisthenewtidy · 24/10/2014 14:46

I've only known one woman like that in real life. She wasn't from a very capitalist society though but from a society that had convinced her that her looks were her only capital.

I felt sorry for her.

I have seen plenty of those women on TV shows and films. I think the media trope of the mean girl is far more prevalent than the real life mean girl.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 24/10/2014 14:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

messyisthenewtidy · 24/10/2014 14:52

Indeed Yonic. It seems that when those "not nice" people happen to be women they are seen to say something about the female gender at large.

I mean, hell, there is an extremely high number of "not nice, violent and rapey" people who happen to be men but with those we are required to preface our assertions with NAMALT. Why is that I wonder?

MissBlennerhasset · 24/10/2014 14:53

I also think the 'mean girl' is a media invention, the darling of Cosmopolitan-type articles - how to spot them, how to work with them, what if you are one?

Just another way to label and divide women, imo.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/10/2014 14:54

Do you think capitalism is destroying male assets and powers too, OP?

messyisthenewtidy · 24/10/2014 14:54

Personally I think unfettered paternal capitalism is bad for anyone who isn't an Alpha Male.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/10/2014 14:56

I don't think capitalism as a stubborn chase of money, power and competitiveness is good for anyone's soul tbh, unless you're the aggressive, unfeeling unempathic type.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/10/2014 14:59

There are 'mean girls' (or women) in 19thC fiction - so if it is a 'media' invention it's not a particularly new one. (and of course also 'mean men' in abundance).

TunipTheUnconquerable · 24/10/2014 14:59

The 'mean girl' trope is also a way to put down women, isn't it - because 'girl' infantilises adult women.
Sorry OP, I think it's a sexist concept and I don't think your analysis rings true.

peppaistired · 24/10/2014 15:01

Yes, I do think capitalism is destroying men's assets too, unless you're the aggressive, money chasing, power hungry type. You're right it's not just about women, but I think men adapt a lot better in general to the capitalist ideal than women.

OP posts:
Caniaskaquestion · 24/10/2014 15:01

Totally agree with Yonic.

And OP don't you think men gave a great capacity for love, creativity and nurturing too? Aren't men thinking and feeling too?
Tbh, I think we have created a culture, with it's emphasis on people primarily being productive economic units, that is a bit anti-human, rather than anti- woman. At least in the terms you are describing.

cailindana · 24/10/2014 15:01

I know a lot of people and I've never met anyone vaguely like this.

But even if they do exist all it says is that some women aren't very nice.

Some men also aren't very nice. Many others rape, abuse and murder people. So I'm not that worried about people of any gender who are "mean" tbh.

cailindana · 24/10/2014 15:04

In what way do you think men adapt better?

ouryve · 24/10/2014 15:07

I think you're over-thinking things.

Do you have a theory about unkind men, too?Hmm

TunipTheUnconquerable · 24/10/2014 15:09

I think capitalism does impact differently on men and women and it's designed more to benefit men.

YonicScrewdriver · 24/10/2014 15:10

It's odd to write one paragraph about loving women and eight about the exception to that rule, isn't it?

grimbletart · 24/10/2014 15:35

Sorry Peppa - don't agree. I don't recognise the picture you are drawing at all. It's fashionable to knock capitalism but even creative people need capitalism - to invest in their ideas, to take a risk in backing projects and in producing, manufacturing and bringing the efforts of the creatives to the market for your (collective your) benefit, whether its transport or medicine, your fridge or your car.

Touchy feely nurturing is warm and cuddly and we all need it. But, it took a little more than that for us to move on from our caves.

AsAMan · 24/10/2014 18:02

I remember the "mean girls" from school. They hurt me the most, maybe because they were girls. But if I member the whole picture they were also part of a certain group that included very mean boys. I mean fucking nasty boys. All of the same comments as the girls dished out but with added misogyny and rapey/sexist comments.

We expect more from females so we remember the bad ones.

If you say "women don't sexually assault people" you'll have a room throw out the names of 3 or 4 high profile women who have sexually assaulted people. Because you will remember their names. They don't know or remember the names of the other 98% of sex offenders who all happen to be male.

Sorry, I just really fed of this "our own worst enemy" crap. Because women aren't.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 24/10/2014 18:04

I'm a bit confused by your name, AsAMan...!

KlokkenVin · 24/10/2014 18:06

It is men that have been the nastiest and the cruelest to me.

Mean girl's comments taken as bitchimg.
Mean boys comments taken as grievances

AsAMan · 24/10/2014 18:13

Oh it's just because I find it funny when blokes come over to FWR and start every god damn mansplainning post with, "as a man".

I am definitely the proud owner of a fanjo Grin

VoyagerII · 24/10/2014 18:17

We expect more from females so we remember the bad ones.

Agree with this. But also I think "mean girls" (as shorthand for women who make other women suffer in the way OP describes) are often narcissistic - absolutely need to be top dog and big themselves up, can't bear criticism, have a need to control other people. This isn't just a female thing, there are a load of men like this too.

But when you look at the victims of that type of behaviour, women tend to be the victims more often, because of the socialisation that tends to make women more likely to feel responsible for other people, seek approval, find it hard to say no, be reluctant to stand up to bullying etc.

So (as a generalization) narcissistic/mean/controlling women tend to bully their female friends, while narcissistic/mean/controlling men tend to bully their female partners.

It's easier to conceal abuse in the domestic arena, so not only are men less expected to be nice, the bullying is also less obvious and known about.

EdithWeston · 24/10/2014 18:21

I think cruel and shallow people have always existed.

And I suspect that it was far more sharp-elbowed in the days when you were struggling to survive, not just get nicer stuff.

I do think the media is seeking to repackage a lot of basic behaviour into new stereotypes (like "mean girls").

I agree with the previous posters who point out that you can see is behaviour replicated throughout history and across many cultures (both the meanness, and the belief that the following generation is so much worse than all it's predecessors).

(I commend Thackeray's 'Vanity Fair' btw as an excellent Victorian novel centred on one such mean girl).

YonicScrewdriver · 24/10/2014 18:23

Good point, Viyager.

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