Thinking about my daughter - schooling choice

[UsinedeGlue]

Hi

I don't want to drip feed but as a broad overview, do you feel that an all girls school is more or less likely to help develop a very clear sense of equality compared to a co-ed? My DD is 9.

DD has an excellent role model in her mother, in that she has a 'big' job, whilst I am a SAHD. But I feel the school have an important role to play too.

My DS is a a couple of years older, incredibly confident, funny, and one of those 'life & soul of the party' types (despite his age!), which can have the effect of overshadowing DD sometimes.

Thoughts?

Obviously it will always depend on the individual school, as while single or mixed education may be better in general, any individual school could be particularly good or particularly bad.

I agree that among the active feminists I know, more seem to have spent some time in single sex education (I'm one of them). There is certainly evidence that more girls in single sex schools go on to A-levels in subjects like physics. I've also noticed that quite a few women on Jim Al-Khalili's The Life Scientific (BBC R4, Tuesday mornings, usually very interesting) have been to single sex schools. Haven't actually done a scientific study of this to know if it is a significant observation, or something I pick up on because I was at an all-girls school.

Had I a daughter, which I haven't, I'd want her to go to mixed primary and single-sex secondary (not entirely coincidentally following the same pattern I did.) I would expect her to meet boys doing activities outside school, as I did - swimming club, DofE, Young Farmers in my case.

EBear my DD (at a mixed primary, Yr 3) has said that she wants to go to a single sex secondary, the reason she gave is that she finds the boys disruptive.

I went to an all girls school and a large number of the girls went into science. At least I know that my preference for the arts / humanities wasn't (entirely) socialised as we were strongly encouraged towards science.

I wonder if you have actually asked your daughter what she would like to do. For her to become involved in the decision making process will further empower her. Whereas her parents making a choice on her behalf feels like the usual way girls and women are treated. She may be young but her opinion is valid.

Well, I can't speak for OP but my daughter who is never short of an opinion was happy for me to decide. She would have known a couple of people going to both schools, but she also understood that friendships change at secondary school. I think it is an important decision and maybe too important to leave to a ten year old (roughly when you might have to make the decision). Listen to their concerns by all means. Observe their interests and personalities. Choose the school that will suit them. But asking a ten year old 'what school do you want to go to?'. No! What happens if they name a school you can't afford? Or pick a school on the basis of where their friends are going? All sorts of things at play (such as sibling policies) that a ten year old can't be expected to consider.

Interesting discussion. I'm a product of a single sex girls school and loved it. I was physically a bit fragile as a child and thought boys were positively thuggish! sciences in general were very popular at school. Like earlier all the subjects were for all of us. Plenty of friends and classmates went onto do math/physics/medicine at uni, myself included. We were lucky to have a boys school next door so as we got older had co-ed clubs and drama and have painful discos with boys on one side and girls on the other. I have a baby girl and would actively look for a single sex school for her but alas they seem to be becoming rarer.

DD attends an all girls secondary and I have been very impressed with the way feminism and the place of women in contemporary society has been dealt with.

It is always given due attention whilst maintaining the balance of realism and humour.

I will be interested to see the difference when she leaves for co-ed sixth form.

Have just got back from viewing our local 6th form. Really bloody depressing - maths/science massively boy heavy, English/languages/humanities a bit more mixed but over 3/4 female, art/drama - 1 boy PE/sports science all male. Interestingly IT was the only subject that was truly mixed but there were only 4 people doing it so could have just been an anomaly.

The kids themselves were bright and articulate and positively engaged with their subjects but it could hardly have been more segregated if the school had said boys can study a/b/c and girls x/y/z.

Something, somewhere is going very wrong.

Maryz, I can see why it annoys you but you can't reasonably expect people to look at their own children and make the choice with the greater good in mind!

I might have put that badly. What I mean is that as a parent my first responsibility is to my own daughter, not to boost the demand for mixed schools so that she would present to potentially have a positive effect on random unknown boys!

ps maryz i have a lot of friends who just wouldn't / didn't / won't consider all girls, so they're happy to send their dds to a mixed school! they don't fear exposure to boys who are sent there in part for the benefit of exposure to girls! :-p

I went to a state co-ed until 16 & then moved for 6th form to a boys independent which only took girls into the 6th form. The girls who moved across from all girls schools struggled with the transition. Only one anecdote but IMO being educated alongside boys guarantees you will think they are no better than you. Just another bunch of individuals finding their way. I've tended to work in male dominated (by numbers) areas.

The way you describe your DD I would be wanting to find out from current parents how friendly/inclusive the all girls school is. I have two friends with girls at all girls day schools and both have had issues with 'in-crowds'.

I think that whether or not a school allows girls to fulfill their potential as human beings is not correlated with being co-ed or single sex. There is a lot more to it than that!

Well , there is absolutely no shortage of mothers / daughters who want to go to mixed schools, it's not a sacrifice in their eyes. They consider the facts and reach a different conclusion. They prioritise being able to socialise with boys/men above any evidence that girls do better at maths and science at an all girls school. (Personally I don't believe it, I think it socialises girls to fit in around boys from a young age, but, a lot of parents go with this idea; that girls at an all girls school can't talk to boys. It's a commonly held belief).

And, it's primarily the expectations and prejudices of the teachers that I was considering more than the brutish swearing horse-playing ruffians and their farting! ok.... maybe a bit of that too.

In a perfect World Bonsoir

I went to an all-girls school from 7 to 17. Aside from it failing to teach me how to deal with boys and relationships (but I was very shy and didn't know anyone outside school, plus my parents were hopeless with that side of things, plenty of other girls had boyfriends and we perfectly confident in that area), I think it was a good choice, there was none of this 'physics is for boys' rubbish, and I would say come the 6th form it was 50/50 humanities/science. And no-one wanted to be a teacher and only one girl went into nursing, everyone else did anything and everything at uni.

I also work in an industry that is dominated by women so I don't think going to a girls' school has failed me in any way really.

Do any schools treat girls how to deal with boys and relationships?

I'd like to see a class (part of PPSE) where girls are encouraged to have strong boundaries and not to be co-erced in to being 'cool girl'.

I think I'm going to buy my dd some books I saw on amazon, about double standards and feminism for teenagers! I'll have to PAY her to read them thhough.

If I had the money I'd 100% send my dd to an all girl's school. There are no "boys courses" like in a co-ed school. How lovely and how nice to not have to worry about self consciousness and boys. I always think of that experiment where girls aare puyut in swim suits to make them worry about their bodies and their maths scores go down. Think about how that translates to boys commenting on their bodies (which they do and they will)

Is it the majority of girls now say they experience of sexual harassment in schools?That alone would make the decision for me.

Nothing wrong with biology or teaching (they happen to be my DDs choices) and DD1 and one of the boys in her class want to do exactly the same thing, so I'm not sure what that says about equality.

Personally I'd let your DD choose.

DD1's choice was co ed without question (BF at primary was a boy)

DD2 toyed with trying for the all girls grammar, but decided against it.

DD1's DF goes to an all girls private school and seems to have ended up stressed and borderline anorexic, despite her class being far less bitchy than others.

Me I went to a mixed comp and still went to university to study physics. Having an engineer DDad was far more influential than school.

Like you he thought biology was a waste of time, I failed my first year of my physics degree and ended up doing Biology (which was far and away my best A level, despite being my fun extra)

In short listern to your DD, let her follow her dreams, if she wants to be a teacher, a nurse or a practical physisit or a painter, let her. Don't let equality or things you think will increase her confidence get in the way.

Let her try things she wants to try, I assumed DD2 would take up holey or netball at senior school, but it's gymnastics and trampolining she loves. You can't shape your DCs lives and you shouldn't try.

I have been very happy for both of my children to attend mixed sex schools, in fact I would not have wanted them to attend single sex schools.
In the workplace I have always been happiest when working with a mixture of men and woman, and think this would be true of school as well.

I have never been given the impression that there are 'boy' or 'girl' courses from either of the high schools my children have been to.

My dd Y7 says most comments about girls appearances come from other girls, although I guess that could change as they get older.

Hockey (sorry, iPhone has lost it's spell check)

All nasty comments about styl if uniform, hair style and refusing to get in trouble by putting on make up come from girls.

Stupid ginger jokes come from both

I have no personal experience so I am only saying how I feel, but I feel that single-sex schools are weird and strange and unnatural.

I don't like the idea of segregation by sex (or gender, or whatever you choose to segregate by... and I am not sure which it is)

There is much more overlap in personalities and interests and talents between the sexes than there is difference.

A child sent to a single-sex school is taught (maybe not out loud, but it is implicit) that boys and girls are different.