Thank you mumsnet!

[AngelsSin]

I really think feminism saved my life, and seeing as it was Mumsnet and these boards that introduced me to feminism, I want to say thank you to you all. (I've been lurking here for a long time now, and posted a few times under an old account)

When I was very young, I was abused by my dad, no one knew, but they did know I was his “favourite” and I was the one told off for that and made to feel bad. Growing up, I thought all I had to offer was the way I looked, I tried to be one of the “cool” girls, a man pleaser etc. When I went off sex with my first long term partner I thought that was because there was something wrong with me – he was an abusive idiot though so I didn’t question my perceived flaws too much.

My second partner, I also went off sex with, I blamed myself for this, thought I was broken somehow and he seemed to agree. He was a good guy after all, so it must have been me that was messed up…. It’s only now I see that most women would have gone off sex with him, he had a fetish for latex, he couldn’t cum unless I was dressed up in the stuff, and if I was, he’d cum in seconds with no concern about my pleasure. He wouldn’t give me oral or even touch me with his fingers because he found it a turn off! It was all about his pleasure. I blamed myself for not being desirable enough when I often woke up in the night to him franticly wanking in the bed next to me over his fetish porn mags.

My third partner was even worse. He didn’t have a lot of real life experience, so had developed a heavy porn habit instead. He demanded dirty humiliating pictures all the time, that I wear certain clothes, that I do certain things for him. His obsession with porn was vile, were talking animals, “stretching”, his idea of talking dirty was telling me to imagine my family watching me have sex (he felt this appropriate even though he knew that my Dad had abused me). He said he was kinky and open minded, I felt I had to keep up to somehow prove my worth. God that makes me cringe now. The funny thing is, I always thought of myself as strong and a bit gobby yet I accepted this behaviour as normal, and the crazy thing is, I think he did too. He wasn’t a monster, he had some amazingly good qualities, but when it came to sex, he was messed up. I was a let down in bed to him because again, I went off sex. I blamed myself, was convinced there was something wrong with me for not wanting it. When I did start to ask for a more simple, straight forward kind of sex to try and get me back into it, he would moan and roll his eyes, and although eventually agree, during, he would always change things round and introduce something gross to satisfy himself.

It was only when I found these boards that I began to have my eyes opened. I’m disgusted with how little respect I had for myself, but I’m even more disgusted now at how much entitlement all these men, men who loved me, had to my body. There wasn’t anything wrong with me, it was them. I see that now, and it’s thanks to you, all of you. You’ve opened my eyes not just to how damaging porn is, or how entitled some men feel to women’s bodies, but to the whole world of sexism. That’s hard to deal with sometimes and it can be overwhelming, but I also know now that I’m not broken, or damaged, there is nothing wrong with me, and that has made me stronger and able to carry on.

Thank you. xx

It's true that the FWR board is a life saver. A haven from RL where people understand where you're coming from and articulate thoughts for you, thoughts that you always had but didn't know how to express.

Aww thank you And they say these boards are scary! They also say women aren't funny, but on many occasions you lot have had me in stitches - you're a very witty bunch!

Do you know what I feel really bad about though? I used to think women were the enemy. I think I was conditioned to think all women were bitchy and back stabbers and I was different somehow and more like one of the lads - what a moron! As my eyes have been opened I've realised that's such a load of crap, and it's men who have fed me it - doesn't that make them the bitchy back stabbers if anyone?!

I don't hate all men or anything extreme like that, but I do feel like I've woken up from a dream thanks to your gentle shaking.

I wish there was something I could do to help in return now. I was very angry with men for a while, but it's not healthy to live like that. So now I try instead to be kinder to women so that if they are under the same illusion I once was, I might show them that we're not so bad.

A bunch of men were trying to barge their way past me and another woman off the train yesterday so I purposely blocked their way and let her go first - such a tiny thing but felt very proud of myself

Your father was disgusting for what he did to you and for making you think being abused was normal. You partners were disgusting for taking advantage of that prior abuse. You, you're an intelligent woman who has come through it. You should be proud of your self.

A bunch of men were trying to barge their way past me and another woman off the train yesterday so I purposely blocked their way and let her go first - such a tiny thing but felt very proud of myself

I've had a few of those moments myself since FWR and feminism in general. I love them

Ferret, I think you're right, yet it's taken me a long time to see it (which doesn't make me feel very intelligent!!). But these men (first partner aside) are all considered "good guys". You would never know from talking to them, they all seem kind and good hearted. My last two partners were genuinely good people in a lot of ways. I almost, almost feel sorry for them now because they'll never have a healthy relationship, and they've been damaged by porn without even realising it - or maybe I'm being naïve?!

Amazingly empowering those little moments aren't they? My turning point was in my angry phase after first discovering these boards when I was seated on the tube and a guy, standing in front of me was moving his crutch closer and closer to my face. So after doing the whole meek, head down, keeping the anger inside thing, I let rip and very loudly said "Dude, can you get your junk out of my face!". He was humiliated, and I was beaming all the way home!

I wouldn't feel bad for those two partners as (if they are the ones you mention in your OP) they really aren't good guys. You can't be a good guy "except for sexually assaulting someone" and masturbating on someone while they sleep is sexual assault. :( As is probably the "something gross" the third one would do.

"Get your junk out of my face!"

Sorry I probably put that a bit wrong, it wasn't on me, (I as a person was kind of excluded from his sex life, he just wanted me to play the part of some fetishised rubber doll) it was just over his mags, probably into a condom due to the latex fetish. But having said that, you're both right - why on earth do I even now feel sympathy for them? How do I stop that without letting myself becoming bitter? I wonder if it's because even as a child adults talked to me like it was my responsibility to stop being my dads favorite, rather than telling him to stop favouring me (they didn't know of the abuse but that's still messed up right?)

Also, does anyone have any theories as to why individual men seek to almost exclude us from other women? What I mean is it was always men who told me how bitchy other women were, how they were back stabbers, insecure, jealous, and what ever other predictable insults they could come up with. This was some time ago now so it was mostly from men in their 20's, but I just can't understand it on an individual level. Do you think they actually believed it too?

The other ex with the really twisted porn addiction didn't ever force me to do anything and I certainly would never have indulged in some of the weird crap he wanted, but he did put pressure on me and I did do things that did nothing for me just to please him. In fact, now I think of it, I can remember a time I asked him to stop because he was using his fingers really aggressively supposedly to make me "squirt" (he'd seen it done this way on porn of course), and instead he told me to just relax and kept going. I remember feeling like crying because it was really uncomfortable, almost painful and I felt like I was letting him down .

God that's depressing , depressing to think that there's a whole new generation growing up with even more access to ever extreme porn and girls of that generation will feel as I did, like its normal, expected and they may not even consider their own pleasure.

Hi OP, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences but it's great that you've found FWR so helpful. I am really grateful for MN too

Also, does anyone have any theories as to why individual men seek to almost exclude us from other women?

I don't know the answer, really - but abusive, controlling men certainly seem to do this. I think it's because in the main, I find women are very supportive of each other.

Certain men certainly object to this aspect of mumsnet - a female, supportive place that encourages women to leave relationships they're not happy in, reject porn and the sex industry and so on- and show their objection by incessant trolling.

As for porn - I've got to the stage now where I can barely put into words how much I hate it, and how damaging I think it is. I think it's going to ruin the sex lives and relationships of an awful lot of young people because it is so pervasive. Young men are becoming addicted to it before they've even had a sexual experience with a woman - it gives them a completely false/unrealistic idea of sex, and is all about the man's pleasure/fetishes and nothing at all about the woman's sexuality.

Thank you Briar. It's so good to have a place like this isn't it? Makes you realise you're not alone. xx

Sabrina, I agree re the porn completely. In theory I don't think there's anything wrong with it, if it actually showed healthy, mutually enjoyable sex. But it's more often than not about treating women like crap these days. I saw a thread somewhere on here a while ago about a young woman who had been traumatised by oral because her boyfriend always expected her to deep throat and would be fairly aggressive about it from the sounds of it. It turns my stomach to think many girls may grow up thinking that's what they should be doing.

Men exclude women from other women because it's other women that say "No, you shouldn't put up with that!" or "No, my partner would never do that!" It's other women that'll challenge the myth that he's a "good guy" so as long as he can convince you other women are bitchy then the longer he can keep abusing you.