Women wearing burqas segregated in aus parliiament building

[diggerdigsdogs]

All people wearing a face covering, I.e. women wearing burqas, into australian parliament will be segregated and seated in an elevated, glassed enclosure/area. Apparently it's a similar area to where schools often sit.

This is because wearers cannot be visually identified even though they will still be security searched and checked. The original idea was that burqas would be banned outright from parliament.

Racial tensions are very high in Australia at the moment as back ground. A young man was shot by police after he stabbed two officers. Dawn raids by police on terror suspects. Graffiti, threats, racial abuse - on both sides from what I understand in the papers.

I'm totally on the fence on this one. On the one side I think people should have to show their faces in certain situations, especially where security is a concern, on the other I don't like the idea of excluding women from any sphere, especially a political one. I support women to dress as they please but I worry that he burqa is a tool of oppression for some(many?) women who must wear it regardless of their choice. Finally I think that for all of Australia's sexism and general conservative values it is a very multi cultural nation and I do not think this decision recognises the make up of modern Australia. From where I live in south Sydney it really does feel like a nation of immigrants.

I'd love to hear some more feminist thoughts on all of this :)

guardian aus article here

Yes we are turning back into a more racist, bigoted, homophobic, mysoginistc society.

I'm with you Serenity, I am hating the way the country is going, and I knew it would turn out this way with Abbott in control. When little Johnnie Howard was the Prime Minister, Abbott was always his bully-boy mouthpiece, saying the horrid, horrid crap that Howard was too machiavellian to commit to himself. All this Islamophobia and burqua bullshit makes me weep for the direction in which this country is heading .

No I've understood that the burqa and face covering is not a requirement since I have known about Islam. My point is that women are covering up because they want to be hidden or because those around them insist on it and to place them in a situation because of they way they choose to adhere to their faith and culture which places them on displays is wrong.

I'm trying to tip top around it but I feel like the security thing is just another long line in the peeling back of women's rights in Australia and the same time there is an increased legitimizing of anti Islamic sentiment with some bullshit team 'straya stuff.
Several prominent security experts have come out and say it's unnecessary.

The ban the burqa sentiment is increasing and it not coming form a place of providing a society which is based on equality and women;s rights it comes from a place of fear and ignorance.

Do I want women to wear the burqa? No. I'm an atheist. adhering to rules by leader reading "made up" stories just isn't right but I feel that way about all religious rules But my choice is not someone else and I would rather women had the choice to wear burqas than be banned from doing it. It's taking one form of oppressive ruling and replacing it with another.

Also if people have to remove helmets, sunglasses etc for id checks then any form of face covering must be removed also But they do have to remove face coverings when the enter parliament house or when they are asked to while they are in it. Everyone needs to be identified when they enter parliament house. I see women in burqas regularly where I live and also in Canberra.

what do people mean when they say "It's cultural"? Can anyone explain a bit please?

I'm really, really broad minded and try to be open but I get incensed by seeing women cover up their heads and faces. I can just about cope with hair coverings but not the veil. I feel some kind of anger about it and don't fully understand why. :(

Do you think they'll be kicked out at the end of the term? I'm not sure how many more of these incidents I can take.

It's not a religious requirement but rather a cultural one. cote might be able to point to the right verse but my understanding is the veil is in reference to men only taking advice when a women is behind a curtain so as to take advice rather then be distracted. I heard too covering is also older then Islam as it's practiced by Bedouins. Modesty is a requirement but that is interpreted differently.

I can't say I like the burqua as a thing but it doesn't worry me for inderviduals what it says about a society does worry me but I think those changes need to be addressed at a structural level rather than at the item if that makes sense.

They are checked before entering. Everyone is.

True. They have got much stricter on security since a 4 wheel drive drove through the front door!

But they fact they already check everyone just makes the thought they would even consider segregation so terrible. I just keep thinking of school trips where one or two lone teenage girls are made to sit in the special you are potential terrorists box.

I do wonder if it's a bit of political stunt. I mean as Abbotts come out against it he can now be like "no I'm not a racist misogynist I said the burqua was OK in the public galleries"

Do you think they'll be kicked out at the end of the term?

Don't know Hazchem, its really hard to say at this point. I haven't seen a political poll done in some time, and its really only the ones done just before an election that have any real weight (I believe). I am hoping that Australian society is coming to terms how bad their voting choice really was when they voted in the Liberal party here. A really sinister aspect of society has reared its ugly, ugly head with Abbott as Prime Minister. I was speaking with someone who lives in a large regional city with really redneck types, who said that the recent rise of racist attacks on overseas students has been so alarming that the local newspaper has been reporting on it.

"women are covering up because they want to be hidden"

And what better way to help them in this endeavor than put them in a separate, higher chamber where they will not risk flashing an inch of skin or hair that may, Allah forbid, send men to a state of uncontrollable lust?

They should go a step further and make that glass one-way so that these women can take off their tents in privacy and breathe for a while. Serious suggestion. I have no doubt that they would appreciate this.

What "advice", Hazchem? I'd like to understand what you are talking about.

The way the public galleries are the glassed of section is currently the press gallery it is very very visible from the chamber and also the other public viewing sections. To create additional glassed section would mean they are also very on display.

Both the house of reps and Senate were designed to be open view chambers.

I'm not sure what advice your not sure about Cote

Cote do you think women wearing the burqua are a risk to the Australian Parliament and should there for be treated different to any other person visit the Parliament?

That's good to hear Zazzles Not the attacks but the fact it's being reported.

The advice that you claim men get from women hidden under a tent.

As I said before, one way to address the visibility issue would be to make the glass one-way. They would not be "on display" (which seems to be your main issue) and they can freely take off their tents and relax among other women.

Oh fuck it really long post disappeared.

No I didn't claim under a tent. My undestanding and it's a whiel since I read about it is that men should only take advice from women when they are behind a curtain. I think this is in regards to Mohummed's daughter who used to give advice.

In terms of one way glass I just can't see how it address the supposed security threat.
The Parliament is open, this openness is both actual but alliterates to a transparency of practice. Our direct access to politicians is one of the good things about our particular democracy. to wall up parts, or to put blanket security restrictions in place is nonsenses. Women were facial coverings already have to remove them for checks and then at any time a security officer or AFP while they are in Parliament.

The announcement is cloaked in security terms but really it's reaffirming "our" white Australia identity especially seeing as there is no evidence that any women wereing face covering has ever tried to sit in the public galleries.

I think it's dog whistle distraction to try and hide from the public that no Australian has even been killed on Australian soil by terrorism so we can go and once again back the United States in war.

Hazchem - it's nothing but scaremongering. Makes me embaressed to be Australian sometimes when I hear the drivel coming from the PM (and Cory Bernadi etc).

reaffirming "our" white Australia identity

Absolutely. Australia may have dismantled all the White Australia policies by 1966, but that mentality remains and is embedded in the culture. The large regional city I referred to above has a major university, and apparently these rednecks have been putting up posters saying that "Africans have AIDS" and are spreading it to the community, physical attacks on Africans in the city etc etc. The university has responded by making sure that posters are taking down post haste. It has exposed a really ugly side of Australia that seems to have been lurking for a while, and has been given a voice by Abbott and the current Liberal fucknuts.

It's really kinda scary how out the racism has become. I'd been away for 8 years and came back just before abbott was elected. And it's like this explosion of hate and fear based on nothing.

"men should only take advice from women when they are behind a curtain. I think this is in regards to Mohummed's daughter who used to give advice."

Sorry but you don't really know this stuff, do you?

I assume you are referring to the instance in the Quran where Mohammad has people over in his home, and Allah tells them they should leave once their meal is finished, and if they need to ask anything of his wives, to do so from behind a barrier/screen ("hijab"). And when he dies, not to marry his wives.

The screen in question is one that men are to pull over their eyes (metaphorically) before they speak to his wives, and is the men's responsibility, not the wives'.

And obviously, this verse concerns Mohammad's wives only for whom there was a different set of rules (other women could remarry, for example).

As I said before, Mohammad is on record saying that women's face and hands should be visible and uncovered.

No I'm not a Mulism. I've not read the Quran. I've read a little interpretation include some feminist discussion on it. I've discussed part of it at length with my partner (who is Muslim) so I might better understand his faith.

The hijab bit the curtain etc is from what I have read, maybe the book was called the seven veils of Islam ?, and that the modern interpretation of the hijab is head covering. I do honestly understand the burqua isn't a requirement.

my points in regards to this dictate from the head of Parliament is 1) it just feels a bit mean to place women who are choosing to be covered and hidden on show, 2) it's not a security issue but rather a dog whistle to members of our society that islamiphobic or misogynist or both.

I'm not sure why you are choosing only to engage with me about the use of the word modesty etc. I'm not sure if I've been grossly offensive in suggesting I don't think it's OK we segregate visitors based on their interpretation of religious dress requirements.

In regards to the one glass if women to unveil in. If that had come from Muslim women who wanted greater access to Parliament it would be worth while considering but as it stand the ruling (now over turned) isn't about that it's putting women under extra observation.