Women wearing burqas segregated in aus parliiament building

[diggerdigsdogs]

All people wearing a face covering, I.e. women wearing burqas, into australian parliament will be segregated and seated in an elevated, glassed enclosure/area. Apparently it's a similar area to where schools often sit.

This is because wearers cannot be visually identified even though they will still be security searched and checked. The original idea was that burqas would be banned outright from parliament.

Racial tensions are very high in Australia at the moment as back ground. A young man was shot by police after he stabbed two officers. Dawn raids by police on terror suspects. Graffiti, threats, racial abuse - on both sides from what I understand in the papers.

I'm totally on the fence on this one. On the one side I think people should have to show their faces in certain situations, especially where security is a concern, on the other I don't like the idea of excluding women from any sphere, especially a political one. I support women to dress as they please but I worry that he burqa is a tool of oppression for some(many?) women who must wear it regardless of their choice. Finally I think that for all of Australia's sexism and general conservative values it is a very multi cultural nation and I do not think this decision recognises the make up of modern Australia. From where I live in south Sydney it really does feel like a nation of immigrants.

I'd love to hear some more feminist thoughts on all of this :)

guardian aus article here

Abbott, for example, is a twat.

^^^^

THIS!!!!!!

I am not being disingenuous ffs.

I disagree with you, you tell me you'll 'remember that next time I post about prostitution'? What the fuck is that supposed to mean then? Was it you? Were you the reason I had to name change?

I don't know puffin. You have a personal posting history.
I'm sure you remember posters you have seen on other threads. It's not stalking. How do you identify anyone you have communicated with before? I doubt they would bother with name changes on here if it wasn't a thing.
Stalking is something very different and targeting an individual

And again.

You win.

It means that prostitution is a hot and common topic on here. I was questioning your statement about 'all that matters is the people involved'.
Not me though I haven't ever NC

Sorry you have had to NC. I understand your posts now.

'I find religion to be a legalised and respected cult. Using all the same techniques. Mainly fear.
I view the word 'choice' as an excuse to defend religion. The same way punters and pimps use 'choice' to excuse prostitution'

I agree with all of this.

Burqas make me profoundly uncomfortable as a feminist. I know how I would feel if anyone tried to tell me what to wear/not to wear so I hate the thought of dictating to other women. I still have difficulty believing that wearing a burqa is a totally independent choice, freely made.

This doesn't suprise me, there was demonstrations recently against a Mosque being built. It seems like the racists won.

I personally dislike the burqa, my SIL's cousin wears the burqa and I really hate the idea as a feminist, but sectioning them off from society is still not a good idea. If they've had full checks and have some form of identification card, then it think it's wrong. Also, why is it ironic to say her area is filled with immigrants? So is mine. OP isn't saying this is a bad thing at all. This idea of Australians who aren't aboriginal being immigrants might be your opinion as someone British, so not from a colonised or only recently (for countries, I means) westernised country- but my little sister, for example, was born and raised n the UK, she's not an immigrant (I am), why are you an immigrant if you aren't aboriginal?

From my limited experience of Australia, I've found it a more racist and misogynist society than I expected it to be. I only lived in Melbourne for a year, but it's been the place where I've experienced the most anti semitism.

Of course Australia is a nation of immigrants! Even Indigenous Australians are theorised to have arrived by boat at some point in the distant past. By "it really does feel like a nation of immigrants" I meant that Australia feels multi cultural (food, shops, restaurants, foreign delis, distinctly ethnic areas, foreign language adverts in shops etc) in a way that I don't remember the UK being. The way white men on television and in newspapers and in parliament discuss Australia is in such terms that you would think it isn't very multi cultural and that all other immigrant cultures are potentially dangerous to Australia. Perhaps this is just my take on it though :)

Nice to see so many other people also on the fence about this!

Absolutely abbot is a twat. I've never come across a politician I have disliked more.

I don't know how many choose to be Muslim. I doubt many, some marry in to it. Probably less than reject Islam in later life. I don't see the choice really

Er have you ever met a convert?

I'm not on the fence about. I think it's fucking appalling that we are putting women in a fish bowl who are choosing to be dressed modestly. The idea of the burqua as on oppressive tool against women is almost separate to this because what the Australian Parliament are doing is saying women are so dangerous they need to be put in a box and looked at like they are in a fucking zoo.
Now I also think the covering of women is increasingly misogynistic but I don;t think the way to address the misogyny is to replace with some hideous fish bowl out and out separatism.

On a side note there is evidence to suggest that aboriginal Australians have been on country for about 100 000 years combined with that they are also the oldest continuing culture. To suggest they are immigrants is a bit shit really.

"I think it's fucking appalling that we are putting women in a fish bowl who are choosing to be dressed modestly."

What does dressing modestly have to do with hiding under a curtain, looking more like the proverbial ghost than a human being?

Agree with Cote - this is WAY beyond dressing modestly. Muslim men are also expected to dress modestly but they never ever cover their faces or wear robes that cover almost every inch of skin

That's the thing cote it's part of the modesty code of Islam. I don;t agree with needing a modest code but if women are chosing to follow that then to place those women in a situation where they are even more viewed seams pretty fuckign mean and more to the point totally pointless. If the protocols are Parliament house are so lax that a women who has been metal detected and shown ID and had a face check at entry is so dangerous that she needs to be separated and put on show in a separate area then we need to rethink the protocols.
The Parliament house in question free allows visitors to walk all over the top of it. If you really wanted to create a terrorist attack standing on top and setting explosives off would be a damn sight easier then getting through security.

"That's the thing cote it's part of the modesty code of Islam"

It's not, actually. And I say that as someone who has lived most of her life in a Muslim country, in a Muslim family, among Muslim friends, and had endless years of RE focused on Islam.

Even if your knowledge of Islam and its requirements are limited, you must have noticed that the vast majority of the world's 800 million Muslim girls & women do not wear a burqa or even cover their faces in some other way. They would have, covering the face were 'part of the modesty code of Islam'.

They would have, if covering the face were 'part of the modesty code of Islam'.

Super crappy phrasing of mine trying to explain even crappier phrasing of mine. Let me try again.

Part of my object to my Parliament putting women who are covering their face into a separate glassed box in the public chamber is that those women who are covering their face are trying to remain discreet. I think it puts an unnecessary burden on those women.

My other two objections to the policy is just about creating a freaking monster out of something that isn't there and it's pointless we just need better entry protocols.

So you understand now that the burqa, and indeed face covering in general, is not part of the modesty requirement of Islam?

Absolutely not. Modesty requirement in Islam does not specify face covering. I suggest you read the Quran and also take a look at the Hadith where Mohammad specifically says that a woman's face and hands should remain uncovered & visible.

I find Burqas a really, really hard thing to accept. I have been told all about choice and all about freedom to wear what you want but I can't accept that the women wearing them are not coerced from birth. And that those who convert are coerced by the writings of men.

Why do men not need them? I don't like the idea of segregation at all though. It does not sit right.

Cote so what makes some women cover up then? Where did they get that from?

It's been overturned.
I'm yet to see an Australian in a burqua. Mostly hijabs and niquabs.
They are using burquas (incorrectly) as a general term.
Yes Abbott is a tosser.
Yes we are turning back into a more racist, bigoted, homophobic, mysoginistc society. I'm waiting for Abbott to bring back the White Australia Policy and start going on about Yellow Peril!
However, I don't like the niquab personally. Humans communicate so much through facial expression. By covering up the face so much of that is lost. Also if people have to remove helmets, sunglasses etc for id checks then any form of face covering must be removed also.