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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girls and socialisation - Afghan girls brought up as boys

7 replies

grimbletart · 22/09/2014 18:29

Anyone see this in the Sunday Telegraph magazine yesterday? I found it fascinating.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11099367/The-Afghan-girls-who-live-as-boys.html

There's been quite a few comments recently on FWR threads about the nature/nurture debate and how much of the way girls and women act is down to socialisation.

I think this shows just how strong socialisation is in the way we act.

Families without sons in Afghanistan sometimes make a daughter into a son for a number of reasons, one being that a family needs a son for good standing and reputation (after all girls are pretty useless aren't they? - sarcasm alert). So they turn a girl child into a 'bacha posh' - a girl who lives and acts as a boy until the time they are ready to be married off, when they turn them back into a girl again. But of course that isn't always easy.

Zahra is a bacha posh who is of an age to be a girl again.

Excerpt: "By her age, girls are commonly taught to focus on being proper, shy and very quiet young women, to make for attractive marriage partners. But Zahra lacks most traditional feminine traits and speaks for herself right away.

"She has lived as a boy for as long as she can remember and has no intention of changing. 'People use bad words for girls. They scream at them on the streets,' she says. 'When I see that, I don't want to be a girl. When I am a boy, they don't speak to me like that.'….

"In impersonating a teenage boy Zahra has an exaggerated, clunky way of walking. With high, tense shoulders, and hands hanging by the thumbs in her pockets, she strides forward in broad duck-footed steps, in her preferred outfit of an oversize hooded shirt, jeans and flip-flops.

"Zahra is the one who moves around the most in her family. She runs all the errands, to the tailor and to the bazaar. She fills the gas canisters and carries them home. 'Boys are stronger than girls' she told me. They can do anything and they are free. When I was a child everyone was beating me and I cried. But now, if anyone tries to beat me I hit back.'"

It goes on to say how Zahra is resisting her family's attempts to turn her back into a girl.

I find this an interesting example of just how much we are socialised. For example, look how she says boys are stronger than girls - but she carries the gas canister because the simple illusion that she is a boy means she is strong. Another example, she hits back when she is attacked, again because of the illusion of being a boy means she doesn't put up with shit.

Total socialisation.

It also gave me a another thought. We know that education is the first step to equality. I'm thinking that the first step to education is a very simple one. Teach men in these cultures one simple truth - that is their sperm that determines sex, so shaming women for not having sons is useless. If having daughters is 'shameful' then it is men who are responsible for the shame. And as we know men who hold these beliefs couldn't possibly accept responsibility for anything 'shameful' as that is the burden they impose on women. Ergo, daughters would become something to be proud of as men have bred them. Grin

OP posts:
NitramAtTheKrap · 22/09/2014 18:50

That article is fascinating.

LittleBlueHermit · 23/09/2014 04:51

Thanks for sharing! I'll have to track down the book.

Interesting to see that the first girl mentioned, Niima, who still wears dresses at home in the evening was very conscious of not being a 'real boy,' unlike the bacha posh who always live as boys.

Unfortunately I don't think educating men about how sex is determined makes much difference. It might stop the wife being blamed for the 'failure' to produce a son, but doesn't address any of the reasons that sons are seen as more desirable (many of which relate to women's lack of earning capacity.)

PetulaGordino · 23/09/2014 05:12

What an interesting article. Hardly surprising that having experienced the freedom of life as a boy they don't want to get back in their box and live a girl's traditional life

I'm not sure that more education re sperm determining sex would make much difference tbh - if you're so inclined you could easily dream up some reasoning that blames the woman for having a womb that is less hospitable to y-chromosome sperm or some such nonsense

JustTheRightBullets · 23/09/2014 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mymummademelistentoshitmusic · 23/09/2014 08:37

I read about a similar thing a couple of years ago in (I think) Italy. They are dying out now though.

Lottapianos · 25/09/2014 11:49

Wow, fascinating stuff. I work with young children and their parents and adults are often not aware of how differently they treat children, even young babies, based on whether they perceive them to be a boy or a girl. I think far too much weight is given to 'nature' and not nearly enough to 'nurture' when it comes to this issue.

scallopsrgreat · 25/09/2014 13:21

I read a book recently (fiction) with a character in it who had gone through this. My understanding is that the prospects for girls who have been through this and are then at the age to be 'married off' (dear god!) are not good. Worse than girls who have been brought up as girls. I'll see if I can find some more info.

It maybe fascinating in a cultural experiment type way but it is the girls that still bear the burden and pain of it. It is all about misogyny.

There's a book out on Sept 30th about it: theundergroundgirlsofkabul.com/

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