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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism

47 replies

Origen5 · 21/09/2014 22:52

Hello there! Long time lurker, first time poster so I'll take this opportunity to introduce myself a bit. I'm James, a bloke from the UK who has been raised by a feminist mother and, not for lack of my mother's efforts, have been categorically against the movement.

My view on feminism has always been that it is just an outlet for man-hating and in my experience, there is no greater exhibition of this than some posts on this very site. It seems to me that some of the Mumsnet users believe feminism to be about precisely what I mentioned above: being derogatory towards men but also complaining about some pathetic things. For example, I saw a thread the other day where the OP had posted a photo of the Grand Theft Auto(GTA) V promotional stand at Tesco and told us all about how she had complained to Tesco about this. (For all who don't know, the stand depicts a cartoon woman in a bikini taking a photo.) From what this poster was saying, it was like she had never taken her kids to the beach before. It is my belief that this so called 'feminism' is nothing more than winging about timy issues such as a cartoon that is "slightly too realistic", God forbid your children will see a bikini! It seems the author has forgotten, in her haste to inform that world that she suffers inequality in her life that she has forgotten what inequality means. THERE ARE STILL WOMEN BEING ASSASSINATED BECAUSE THEY FIGHT FOR BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS SUCH AS VOTING AND YET YOU WHINE ABOUT VIDEO GAME ADVERTISING! (apologies for the shouty caps, got a little carried away there!)

If you would have told me yesterday that in 24-hours, I'd be a feminist I would have laughed, but here I am, writing this as a feminist. The reason for this sudden change is not because my views and values have suddenly shifted, it's because I listened to the UN speech made by Emma Watson which portrayed feminism as a movement for equality, not just for women, but for men also. I am trying to explain what I mean by this but I know it's not working.... so to save me droning on and not really making my point or indeed, any sense, I'm just going to post a transcript in this post in the hopes that some of you 'feminists' will take these values on board so we as a race (not just women) can stand up against gender inequality.

Many thanks for getting this far through what has been an appalling read I just wanted to get my point across and it's late :P

  • James Bike

Today we are launching a campaign called “HeForShe.” I am reaching out to you because I need your help. We want to end gender inequality—and to do that we need everyone to be involved.
This is the first campaign of its kind at the UN: we want to try and galvanize as many men and boys as possible to be advocates for gender equality. And we don’t just want to talk about it, but make sure it is tangible.
I was appointed six months ago and the more I have spoken about feminism the more I have realized that fighting for women’s rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop.
For the record, feminism by definition is: “The belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. It is the theory of the political, economic and social equality of the sexes.”
I started questioning gender-based assumptions when at eight I was confused at being called “bossy,” because I wanted to direct the plays we would put on for our parents—but the boys were not.
When at 14 I started being sexualized by certain elements of the press.
When at 15 my girlfriends started dropping out of their sports teams because they didn’t want to appear “muscly.”
When at 18 my male friends were unable to express their feelings.
I decided I was a feminist and this seemed uncomplicated to me. But my recent research has shown me that feminism has become an unpopular word.
Apparently I am among the ranks of women whose expressions are seen as too strong, too aggressive, isolating, anti-men and, unattractive.
Why is the word such an uncomfortable one?
I am from Britain and think it is right that as a woman I am paid the same as my male counterparts. I think it is right that I should be able to make decisions about my own body. I think it is right that women be involved on my behalf in the policies and decision-making of my country. I think it is right that socially I am afforded the same respect as men. But sadly I can say that there is no one country in the world where all women can expect to receive these rights.
No country in the world can yet say they have achieved gender equality.
These rights I consider to be human rights but I am one of the lucky ones. My life is a sheer privilege because my parents didn’t love me less because I was born a daughter. My school did not limit me because I was a girl. My mentors didn't assume I would go less far because I might give birth to a child one day. These influencers were the gender equality ambassadors that made who I am today. They may not know it, but they are the inadvertent feminists who are. And we need more of those. And if you still hate the word—it is not the word that is important but the idea and the ambition behind it. Because not all women have been afforded the same rights that I have. In fact, statistically, very few have been.
In 1997, Hilary Clinton made a famous speech in Beijing about women’s rights. Sadly many of the things she wanted to change are still a reality today.
But what stood out for me the most was that only 30 per cent of her audience were male. How can we affect change in the world when only half of it is invited or feel welcome to participate in the conversation?
Men—I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.
Because to date, I’ve seen my father’s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother’s.
I’ve seen young men suffering from mental illness unable to ask for help for fear it would make them look less “macho”—in fact in the UK suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20-49; eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease. I’ve seen men made fragile and insecure by a distorted sense of what constitutes male success. Men don’t have the benefits of equality either.
We don’t often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.
If men don’t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won’t feel compelled to be submissive. If men don’t have to control, women won’t have to be controlled.
Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong… It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.
If we stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by what we are—we can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. It’s about freedom.
I want men to take up this mantle. So their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too—reclaim those parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so be a more true and complete version of themselves.
You might be thinking who is this Harry Potter girl? And what is she doing up on stage at the UN. It’s a good question and trust me I have been asking myself the same thing. I don’t know if I am qualified to be here. All I know is that I care about this problem. And I want to make it better.
And having seen what I’ve seen—and given the chance—I feel it is my duty to say something. English statesman Edmund Burke said: “All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men and women to do nothing.”
In my nervousness for this speech and in my moments of doubt I’ve told myself firmly—if not me, who, if not now, when. If you have similar doubts when opportunities are presented to you I hope those words might be helpful.
Because the reality is that if we do nothing it will take 75 years, or for me to be nearly a hundred before women can expect to be paid the same as men for the same work. 15.5 million girls will be married in the next 16 years as children. And at current rates it won’t be until 2086 before all rural African girls will be able to receive a secondary education.
If you believe in equality, you might be one of those inadvertent feminists I spoke of earlier.
And for this I applaud you.
We are struggling for a uniting word but the good news is we have a uniting movement. It is called HeForShe. I am inviting you to step forward, to be seen to speak up, To be the he for she. And to ask yourself if not me, who, if not now when.

Thank you.

OP posts:
ArsenicFaceCream · 21/09/2014 22:56

Ok sweetheart

DuelingFanjo · 21/09/2014 22:58

Someone will be along in a minute to explain it better but I am pretty sure that the old 'you women are not allowed to moan about being women because you are privileged compared to those in the third world' isn't viewed as a decent argument against feminism.

DuelingFanjo · 21/09/2014 22:59

And

Oh look, a man telling women how to do feminism.

ArsenicFaceCream · 21/09/2014 23:00

Oh is that what he said? It was so dull and turgid...

ChildrenOfTheDamned · 21/09/2014 23:01

Thanks for the little mansplaining sweetheart, now run off back home to mummy, it's passed your bedtime.

rosabud · 21/09/2014 23:07

I'm James, a bloke from the UK who has been raised by a feminist mother

Oh, your poor mother.

TheSameBoat · 21/09/2014 23:13

This is possibly the most confusing OP I've ever seen.

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 23:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSameBoat · 21/09/2014 23:21

Sorry but I'm still confused Confused. So, you had a feminist epiphany a la Emma W but still think feminists are whingers? And why is Emma W any different from those whining feminists that you hate so much?

I feel like I'm watching Jerry Macquire.

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 23:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArsenicFaceCream · 21/09/2014 23:25

I think Emma Watson is supposed to be some kind of second coming, heralding a new, less man-hating feminism Boat.

Maybe someone should tell her Confused

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 23:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSameBoat · 21/09/2014 23:28

Oh Buffy, of course that's it! Maybe he doesn't know what "synonymous" means?

But this would be a grand example of what your other thread is talking about - the way anti feminist men respond by pedantic tone-policing rather than focusing on the actual message itself.

BlameItOnTheBogey · 21/09/2014 23:29

Your mother must be so proud.

manlyalmondcakes · 21/09/2014 23:29

I don't understand.

Are you trying to say that if feminists stop complaining about sexualised images of women in public places, you will join with us to complain about global human rights abuses?

But if we don't stop complaining then you're refusing to condemn the human rights abuses and that is somehow our fault?

DuelingFanjo · 21/09/2014 23:29

"She is trying to tell you that it is incorrect to equate feminism with man-hating. She isn't saying that up until now, feminism has been a movement of man-haters, and this version of feminism must come to an end to make way for a new version that wants equality of the sexes."

This ^

TheSameBoat · 21/09/2014 23:30

Xposts!

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/09/2014 23:32

"And let me also clarify for you (though I did not see the thread you mention about GTA) that the photo you are describing sounds like the one of a bloke in his car stopping to buy sex from a woman, yes?"

You didn't see the thread, Buffster, because it wasn't on here "the other day", it was on here at least a year ago.

Unless one of our visitors bumped it.

Still, I got a YouTube link re Emma which I haven't watched so it's handy OP posted a transcript.

BuffyBotRebooted · 21/09/2014 23:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GarlicSeptimus · 21/09/2014 23:37

That's a good speech. I hadn't seen it. Thanks for posting it.

ChasedByBees · 21/09/2014 23:38

Dear God. Mummy issues much?

Why did you feel the need to come here and try to mansplain at us anyway?

AskBasil · 21/09/2014 23:44

Men who never listened to their mothers never turn out well.

I'm going to show DS this thread as a warning when he next ignores my requests to tidy his room.

Grin
ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/09/2014 23:44

The GTA Tesco thing was posted in June 2013 and was the one and only post of the OP.

But yay to James for being able to work a Search Engine.

PercyHorse · 21/09/2014 23:48

Can we get a better quality of mansplaining around here.