Girl killed by father

[ballsballsballs]

A man kills his daughter and it's a 'tragic domestic incident'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753754/Seven-year-old-girl-shot-father-arrived-home-school-dies-injuries.html

I'm drunk. But even sober there are no words.

"Tragic domestic incident" my fat arse.

How about "cold blooded murder by a man, one of thousands of cold blooded murders carried out by men every year."

Jesus that is excruciatingly horrible. I wish I hadn't read it just before bed.

The bystander quotes though...
'I just feel shocked. It’s bloody sad. A man, whether it was her father, he must have been in a hell of a state to do that.'

• Aww yes, poor bloke. Must have been hell for him.

'This is leafy, rural Sussex - it's a nice area. Paul McCartney lives in the next village. This is not the kind of thing that goes on here.'

• Nope, no violence against women and girls around here. Everything is fine.

WTF?

I was married to an abusive man. He was (is?) a violent arsehole, but this...

That poor little girl.

I can't stop thinking about the mother seeing her daughter shot right in front of her by this man. I can't think of a worse more utterly evil and vicious thing he could have done.

From what I've read many are sympathetic to the gir's father. Because he must have been in so much pain... There are no words.

On days like this I hate all men. And NAMALT can go fuck off.

From what I've read many are sympathetic to the gir's father. Because he must have been in so much pain...

Yes - funny how men's pain is so vast and uncontainable that they naturally have to destroy the women and children in their lives just to get some releif.

And it's interesting to compare this talk of the murderous father's "pain" to the way people talk about Rosdeep Adekoya...

This is absolutely dreadful, the way it is reported is horrific too. If you notice it states at the beginning of the article that the mother rejected Islam and him. The subtext being that it was obviously her fault if only she hadn't been so cruel. The allegation that social services had banned him from being in sole care of the children due to abuse back in 2006 is tucked much further down where many won't notice it.

This would have been reported very differently if it was an estranged mother committing murder.

the article is a fucking disgrace . What's wrong with these people?

I hope he rots in hell. That poor poor little girl.

I didn't click the DM link.

There's a longish thread here discussing the police use of language in the immediate aftermath, legal issues, and how the language changed after the death.

ballsballsballs, do you really not think that most men (and especially most fathers) are aghast and appalled at what has happened here?

I agree that the Mail's reporting is repellent, but let's be honest, that's what it does - it's a moral vacuum. If anything I read the article as trying to shift the blame onto Islamic cultural norms, which is of course pernicious in itself (normal Muslims don't kill their kids).

This sort of thing now seems to be happening way too often (of course, once is too often, but you know what I mean). I had started drafting a post based on the presumption this sort of thing usually occurred in the midst of a mental health crisis, and was wondering if the phenomenon had been researched. However this summary:

www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/230412.pdf

-suggests that most cases are effectively an extension of an existing pattern of abuse - ie the killers are generally common-or-garden calculated evil cnts. This illuminates that reactions like those reported by indigui* above ("he must have been in such a state etc.") are way off-beam.

do you really not think that most men (and especially most fathers) are aghast and appalled at what has happened here?

What struck me about the quote from the neighbour about the murderous father having been "in a state" was that it suggested the existence of a continuum of anger/disgruntlement/dissatisfaction, with mild annoyance at one end and shooting your own child in the head with a shotgun at close range at the other. It made me think that the neighbour saw something recognisable in the actions of the murderer. I don't think that most men think "yeah mate, I can see how you got to that point," but obviously some men do think that way.

I had started drafting a post based on the presumption this sort of thing usually occurred in the midst of a mental health crisis

But even if that was the case, the fact that it is overwhelmingly men who reach for a gun/throw their children out of high buildings/gas their children in their cars is to my mind significant. Women have mental health crises too, and this is not how they typically behave in the throes of said crises.

The focus is always always always on the man, the way things went wrong for him and the way women and even little girls didn't live up to his expectations. It's fucking sick. She was a seven year old child for the love of fucking Christ!! Females are always expendable, no matter what age. They are always to blame.

my heart goes out to the mother and brother .even if this man was mentally ill .thats no excuse .i know be ill is hard my hubby very ill .but does this give him the right to kill his child and say i was ill no off course not ..and then to kill himself this poor woman will never get justice for her child .

gincampari the nub of my point was more that mental health as such is largely a red herring. Thousands of people have mental health crises every year; but I would suggest that it only crosses the mind of a small percentage of those to shoot their kids. That people occasionally have breakdowns is (sadly) a fact of life; it looks to me like the key causal factor in this kind of murder-suicide is that the killer is already an abuser.

Incidentally, and for the sake of balance, I'd challenge the idea that this is how men 'typically behave in the throes of a mental health crisis'. Murder-suicide is actually very rare in the UK (obviously that doesn't make it less horrific when it does happen). From what I can work out the annual rates are something like one in 10 million for men and one in a hundred million for women. I'm not protesting that NAMALT; more that the vast majority don't fall into this category.

Similar reporting as this story which I came across recently as well, although it was reported by a woman.

More death

A man in Australia kills his wife and three children and then kills himself. No doubt that the female author's editors would have cut out some details, and there is this stifled, stonewally quality to the reporting. No mention of the man's mental or emotional state, although it alludes to the fact that the wife had been in a serious car accident and the husband appeared to be taking care of her, and was a 'pillar of support for her' (please, give the man a post-humous medal ). At least it is accurately described as a murder-suicide. And yes, the event is 'tragic', according to the report.

the nub of my point was more that mental health as such is largely a red herring

I was agreeing with you and I agree with this.

I'd challenge the idea that this is how men 'typically behave in the throes of a mental health crisis'

Of course - what I should have said is that it is typically men (as opposed to women) who behave like this, whether there is a mental health crisis happening or not.

mental health as such is largely a red herring

I disagree with this, and this is the reason why. I think it is important to review and document the trauma that men have undergone, as well as the mental and emotional state of men who have killed their wife and/or children, and compare it to men who have undergone a similar level of trauma and do not go on to kill their loved ones (as a control group). Only then can you compare the two groups and come to some conclusion.

Charlie the woman doesnt even have to commit murder for the attitudes to be different.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marissa_Alexander_case

A few years ago I was watching television with my brother, who is a father of three himself, and one of those blokes dressed as Batman was holding up traffic somewhere protesting about fathers' rights. My brother said 'I reckon with most of these blokes there's a good reason they're not allowed to see their children. I reckon most of them are just doing this to stay in control of their wives.' I could have hugged him because he got it.

This case reminds me of that guy in Australia a few months ago who beat his son to death with a cricket bat. All the reporting was on how distressed and ill he was. No mention of the fact that he was only allowed to see his son under supervision because he was a domestic abuser. Men who use their children to control their wives are the lowest of the low. How someone can look at their own child and not see an individual with their own hopes and dreams and future is beyond me. I wish I believed in hell because these guys need to go there for eternity.

YY NickandNora.

This case reminds me of that guy in Australia a few months ago who beat his son to death with a cricket bat.

Omg, I remember that case! And I didn't know about the beating his son to death with a cricket bat, nor the visits under supervision or the domestic abuse! Just goes to show you how selective and myopic journalism is in favouring men in their reporting. How sad for that poor boy, and a brutal way to die .

I have said this before - but i think many people just can't comprehend "why" and must place a label of some sort on these incidents to try and understand.

They say he was ill or disturbed or angry or something just to justify the death of a little girl - because the truth is actually too ugly to think about.

The truth being that there are men out there (many men?) who will abuse their family members because they think they are entitled to do so. These men might be their own husbands or their brothers. That is too hard to even consider.

We want it to be an anomaly or how else can we function being around these men all the time. We need to trust that "our man" wouldn't do such a thing.

I'm not sure about that.

I can accept there are men who will abuse their family members because they think they are entitled to.

I don't think it's because they are ill or disturbed, just nasty abusive bastards. I doubt they go from zero abuse to murdering someone in a single step.

It doesn't mean I worry about men around me suddenly becoming a nasty bastard out of the blue.