Would You Like to Share a Prison Cell with This Person? **MNHQ edit, this post contains rather graphic material**

[CKDexterHaven]

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/laverne-cox-launches-media-campaign-in-support-of-transwoman-synthia-china-blast-convicted-for-the-rape-murder-and-abuse-of-the-corpse-of-thirteen-year-old-ebony-nicole-williams/#comments

I particularly like the bit about giving birth to little baby serial killers. Is this the kind of campaign feminism should be getting behind?

Yes x 100 to that last paragraph.

Laverne is now looking glowing at the Emmy Awards. No trace of controversy. No suggestion that Laverne supported a child-raping, girl-murdering, serial killer-worshipping psycho in his attempt to live in a sweetie shop of potential female victims.

personally i don't believe people are born evil, and while i don't know what this person went through as a child, i suspect there mut have been something that resulted in them committing such a horrendous crime. i would imagine that the options for someone who has committed a crime like this are very limited, could you ever truly come to terms with what you'd done? you could committ suicide, become even more of a 'monster', or kill the person who committed the crime and replace them with someone more nurturing - a metaphorical suicide, if you will.

of course none of this ill-informed apologist neurobabble changes the fact that he did rape and murder a child, and the idea that he should now be admitted to a female prison because his crimes have sent him doolally is dangerous.

i think most of my sympathy is reserved for the family of this poor child, i can't imagine having the whole thing in the news again is something they wanted, but that's exactly what's happened, and it's hapened because yet again men put the rights of other men above women.

I've seen some people saying it's "transphobic" to talk about this, because it risks painting all trans women as potential threats.

But - the last time the whole "trans woman in male prison" issue came up, it was with Avery Edison, the comedian who went to Canada to see her girlfriend without the proper paperwork, and was (to nobody's surprise except hers) not allowed in, and the Canadian authorities held her in a male facility, although segregated from the men. There was a big internet campaign to correct this terrible injustice.

Now, Avery's crime wasn't in the least violent, and was probably down to a massive case of young, middle-class, white entitlement (how stupid and privileged do you have to be to think your paperwork doesn't matter at all when you go to another country, because, y'know, you are white and middle class, so why wouldn't they let you in anyway?), but Avery - young, white, middle-class, mostly-law-abiding, unthreatening, respectable Avery - is also the person who wrote about how their penis wasn't like a man's penis, and how transphobic you were if you treated it as such, and how hurt she was by the terrible transphobic woman she picked up in a gay bar, and who was happy to have sex with her, but not PIV. And Avery wanted PIV, and so she went to bed with her anyway, and then wrote a blog about what a terrible, terrible, no-good, hurtful transphobe this woman was for having enthusiastic sex with Avery but not allowing Avery PIV.

I wouldn't want any women to be obliged to share a prison cell with nice, young, middle-class Avery either.

Just dropped back in to say - I don't know if many of you follow this issue on twitter, but there is a small but growing network of gender-critical trans women on twitter who have spoken out about this, are happy to discuss things with feminists without calling anyone TERF or telling them to DIAF, and who (bizarrely) are now being labelled "TERF" themselves by trans activists and allies (including some non-trans men, who see nothing odd or inappropriate about telling a trans women she is transphobic for not having the same opinons as him...)

Anyway, it's incredibly heartening to see this small but increasingly confident group say, yes, they are trans women, but they are also male, if not actually men, and yes, penis is male, and no, they shouldn't lay claim to women's space, or demand access to women's bodies. They've been speaking out on this issue and saying how totally out of order the SRLP has been in championing this murderer/rapist.

Yes there are some very interesting transwomen commentators out there. Am I right in saying that they tend to fall into the 'gender-dysphoria' rather than 'autogynophile' branch of transgenderism? The abuse they get for speaking up is shocking. The thing is they are the very kind of transwomen that would need special provisions in prison, just not at the expense of women.

The info on Avery Edison is very interesting. The cotton ceiling brigade tend to deny that they would ever want PIV with a lesbian so someone coming out and saying it is refreshingly awful. If you were actually a lesbian you would pretty much get that lesbians rather enjoy not having to use contraception, having zero risk of pregnancy, having far less chance of catching an STI and generally not having anything to do with penises and the stuff that comes out of them. You would have to be a man to think otherwise.

re gender critical trans - there is at least one who self-identifies as AGP, a couple of transsexuals, and myself of course (detransitioning m2t). the thing most of us share is the ability to acknowledge the huge amount of male privilege male socialisation imparts.

May I ask a personal question, andie? If you are detransitioning, do you prefer to be referred to as a man, or are you still trans (since you are still going through a process, even if in the other direction)? No worries if you'd rather not answer, but I've seen other people on social media talk about detransitioning, and wondered how they see themselves, and how they'd like others to see them.

I agree with you, SevenZarkSeven.

thanks abbie

this blanket association with trans = sex crimes

I think the point is not trans=sex crimes. I think the point is that the current push for men to be given unfettered access to all women's spaces as long as they "dress like women" is a dream come true for sex offenders because all they have to do is put on a dress and they have a free pass to walk into places where women are in a state of undress and therefore vulnerable.

That comment was part of a wider post, which in turn was in response to a specific link. I think you need to tie in to the content of the link and why you would disagree with my comments in that context.

Not being arsey but that's one tiny line and totally out of context.

I mean if this isn't equating trans with sex offences then I don't know what is:

"Transgender fetish is the largest sexual disorder reported in convicted sex offenders.(4) Almost 100% of convicted sex offenders have a documented history of transvestism, crossdressing, free-dressing, Autogynephilia, transsexualism – in other words: TRANSGENDER."

That link has really dodgy stats and is implying extremely strongly that all MTF trans people are deviant sex offenders.

Even using that authors extremely wide definition of transgender, I flat out do not believe that nearly 100% of all sex offenders are transgender. That is just hatemongering bollocks, quite frankly.

Having said that I don't know what "free dressing" is - if it means "wearing clothing" then maybe the author has a point. I somehow doubt it though.

Even using that authors extremely wide definition of transgender

No citation for the claimed "almost 100%," I see...

That being said, is it the author's definition? As far as I can tell the definition of "transgender" as used by the transgender community themselves is very inclusive and therefore very very broad.

And I think that that's a problem that the community needs to face up to and address, because at the moment "transgender" does include literally anyone who wants to call themselves transgender. Any dude who puts on a dress can say "I am transgender" and who can argue with him? The community certainly can't, and that means that they run the risk of very distorted crime stats. I have no idea what the answer is.

The answer is that it is patent bollocks that "nearly 100%" of convicted sex offenders are transgender.

That is blatant hatemongering.

I agree with you also seven, I closed that link because I felt it was trying to paint all trans people as active sex offenders and a claim like that really needs to be backed up with substantial proof not just examples.

Of course the situation with trans sex offenders and male/female prisons is also madness. I can't see any real solutions except to create extremely small trans only prisons.

The answer is that it is patent bollocks that "nearly 100%" of convicted sex offenders are transgender

I'm confused. How is that the answer to the questions I asked in my last paragraph - about the "transgender" label being hijacked and abused by sex offenders?

Unless trans people are completely segregated off and then it wouldn't matter which prison they are attached to - the point of principle could be allowed without compromising either the main population of the prison or endangering the transperson.

I wouldn't expect a pre-operative transman to want to be housed in a male prison (would they?) and I can't conceive of insisting that they go there.

If everyone got a choice then most people would choose to go in a female prison rather than male wouldn't they? It's just shit-tons safer for a start.

Thing is that the prison system needs sorting out. Everyone in prison should be safe from violence including sexual violence.

If you're going to hack my posts about, not engage with the context and then go completely off topic rather than engaging with something quite fundamental to what you brought up in the first place, then I will feel free to respond as I see fit

If I were a MTF trans person what I would take away from that link is not "hmm I need to have a good think about what labels I feel should be included under the trans unbrella" and more "Oh fuck if lots of people read this sort of thing and pay it any credence my whole life is going to be screwed and people are going to want to kill me".

1st post in response to tewi there 2nd to gin

@archeryannie - i'm not particularly concerned one way or the other :)

gin also makes a good point though. If you are trans simply by declaring yourself to be so, and male-bodied MtF trans are to be automatically given access to women-only spaces, then a very good way of getting access to women for the purposes of sexual assault is to declare yourself trans. That's a real practical problem which, it seems to me, no one but so-called TERFS is prepared to addressed.

address, even.

If you're going to hack my posts about, not engage with the context and then go completely off topic rather than engaging with something quite fundamental to what you brought up in the first place, then I will feel free to respond as I see fit

Wow, ok. You're really angry. I genuinely didn't mean to upset you but I obviously have. I thought we were exchanging views! Sorry!

on the (possible) link between trans and sex offenders - i don't think this can be entirely disregarded. of course i know many trans people who aren't offenders, but i do think sexual dysfunction of some sort or another is fairly common. aditionally, as someone who believes trans and other more extreme/dangerous deviancy to be the result of less than ideal upbringings, would it really be beyond the realms of possibility for their to be a degree of overlap? i don't think so.