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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is women's sport finally being taken seriously?

29 replies

grimbletart · 19/08/2014 14:50

The Daily Telegraph devoted a whole centre spread in it sports section today to the England women's world cup rugby win (and the comments underneath were all positive). The team's pictures were also all over the media yesterday and all the matches were covered by Sky.

A couple of examples from the centre spread below. At last the media coverage of women's sport is growing and the bums on seats are growing too as a result.

The women's cricket team are now fully paid professionals although the rugby players all still hold down other jobs.

Will this, plus the profile given to women's athletics now finally get female sports taken seriously.

(Loved it that the rugby women received a congratulatory text from none other than that rugby God Jonny Wilkinson)! If he can be a fan you would think it would shut up the derisory stuff that some men spout about women in sport.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11042240/Womens-Rugby-World-Cup-The-morning-after-and-Englands-triumph-feels-as-if-it-is-a-seminal-moment.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11042222/We-must-capitalise-on-this-magnificent-triumph-to-develop-the-womens-game.html

OP posts:
AICM · 19/08/2014 14:57

On breakfast TV (BBC) there is a woman presenting the sports news at least as often as a man. The BBC show women's results more often than I have ever seen them before. Radio 5 Live as a female cricket commentator commenting on male test matches.

Not there yet , but the BBC and the Daily telegraph are doing well.

Subhuman · 19/08/2014 15:26

It's a catch 22. Because the quality of men's sport is generally higher (not in all sports, but in many, due to being traditionally male dominated) the public only want to watch the men perform. If the audience isn't there, the money doesn't follow and without the money, the training to improve the quality is lacking.

It's great that England women won the RWC and the commentators are gradually filtering through to TV and radio but it becomes a question of what comes first, the coverage of the sport or the training of the athletes?

scallopsrgreat · 19/08/2014 15:35

I don't understand why it is an either/or question. Men never had to make that choice. The standard of men's sport is never in question. Even though most women's sport is probably better in terms of quality and competition than a lot of men's sport say 30 yrs ago when men's sport still had the majority of coverage and funding.

Women aren't playing off a level playing field. Never have done. They have barriers that men don't have. One of them is media coverage.

Subhuman · 19/08/2014 16:06

I agree, media coverage is a barrier, but when it is shown, the ratings generally aren't as high (Wimbledon women's final had 3m viewers, men's had 10m). What is the reason for that? The advertisers and sponsors aren't going to pay as much when only a third of the amount of people watch. And if they aren't going to pay, the commercial channels will simply show something that gets a bigger audience. BBC on the other hand has more flexibility and responsibility to show female sport as they don't have to pander to the advertisers, so if the coverage is going to get boosted, that is probably the only realistic option for many sports.

whatdoesittake48 · 19/08/2014 16:15

But the media coverage has only come when they did well, won or succeeded in a large tournament.Men's sport is covered, win or lose(even if it is usually "lose")

Subhuman · 19/08/2014 16:21

Because that is when the popularity has peaked and it gets to the level where for a short while the advertising and sponsorship might jump. Sustaining and growing that is the difficult part.

Littleturkish · 19/08/2014 16:24

Love the coverage it's getting at the moment- really good to see. I agree it's getting better.

Original poster
grimbletart · 19/08/2014 16:54

Did you notice that at the European Athletics Championships on BBC the anchor was Gabby Logan and two of the three regular experts analysing both men's and women's performances were women - Denise Lewis and Paula Radcliffe (along with Colin Jackson). That just would not have happened a few years ago.

OP posts:
TiggyD · 19/08/2014 16:55

Wimbledon women's final had 3m viewers, men's had 10m

Mens tennis is of interest lately because:
-There's a British player doing well,
-The top 4 mens players are really great at the moment,
-And much of the women's game is totally uncompetative. By which I mean if you look at the amount of matches at Wimbledon that were walkovers, straight sets with more than 2 breaks per set, there were twice as many in the women's draw. Same with the sets. The women's competition had double the amount of 6-0 and 6-1 sets as the mens'.

The men's game is just more interesting and exciting.

King1982 · 19/08/2014 16:57

The Wimbledon women's final is on a Saturday. This may impact on viewing figures. People tend to be home on a Sunday for the men's.

Subhuman · 19/08/2014 17:14

The fact that the men's tennis is so much more competitive, interesting and exciting is what makes the viewers tune in. There was no British player in the final so that wouldn't have made a massive difference. The fact that the men's final is the Sunday could have an effect but the reason it is that way round is because there is more interest in the men's final. I don't know what the viewing figures are like globally but I would imagine something similar. Is there a sport either in the UK or worldwide that is female dominated AND gets big audience figures?

We definitely need to ensure the girls currently playing sport get the attention and training required to improve the standards when they leave school which might then give the broadcasters more incentive to improve coverage further.

TiggyD · 19/08/2014 17:17

Just checked.

Walkover matches where a player won by straight sets with games of 6-3 or worse:
Men - 10
Women - 39

Sets that were won to love, ie boring and embarrasing:
Men - 7
Women - 20

The women's final was:
3 - 6, 0 - 6

The men's final was:
6 - 7, 6 - 4, 7 - 6, 5 - 7, 6 - 4

CKDexterHaven · 19/08/2014 17:25

England's most capped player, Fara Williams, was homeless for much of her playing career. Please don't tell me she's on a level playing field.

I hate that women don't get to play 5 sets in tennis. They get treated like the warm-up act. 5 sets allows for the games to be far more dramatic and less likely to be one-sided. Some people say that the women don't have the stamina for 5 sets, ignoring the fact that women run marathons and do triathlons, and the fact that most of the top women players also play doubles on the same day as their singles matches.

Mengog · 19/08/2014 17:39

It's not a level playing field. However, for people like Fara Williams to be paid what she deserves, women need to embrace womens football/Rugby/Cricket.

Get out there, go to games every weekend, buy the shirts, buy the sky sports subscriptions and the female players will be getting paid a healthy proportion of that. Support the grass roots.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 19/08/2014 18:18

And men do too, Mengog.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 19/08/2014 19:06

Again, a vicious circle. If you are the best and most expensive coach in tennis, which players have more money to pay you and which players will you get more glory for coaching?

When Kyrios beat Nadal, he won an entire set without Nadal getting a racket on the ball. That never happens in the women's game. But that's cool in the men's game because those points were aces.

sausageeggbacon11 · 19/08/2014 22:18

Scallop men's football, rugby and cricket were all amateur to start with in fact rugby union only became professional in 1995. It was bums' on seats that paid for players especially in football. If we want to see coverage we need to go through the same growing process. Or should we expect to skip 150 years of football growing as a game to were it is now? Shouldn't take us anywhere near that time but in real terms games with less than 1,000 fans are the norm in football.

Very impressed with the rugby and the grit shown in the match. The issue will be keeping it in the public consciousness past a month or so. Hopefully more people will attend matches as you do get to feel a Jilly no mates especially when matches have been held after men's games and a crowd of 80,000 comes down to 3 or 4 thousand.

Perhaps with Sevens being at the next Olympics we will continue to see a growth in coverage?

scallopsrgreat · 20/08/2014 21:23

I don't really understand the point you are making sausageeggbacon. I know most men's sport were amateur to begin with. That didn't stop them getting media focus.

I really hate these discussions on here about sport. The same arguments come up about standards and competitiveness without any nuance as to why that might be nor the fact that men's sport doesn't have to undergo the same scrutiny. There is always the undertone of "well if you just tried a bit harder or were just a bit better you could have equality". Women just don't come up to scratch. What hoop they have to jump through or what bar they have to reach is arbitrary and a moveable feast. Just out of reach.

It's always the case when women ask for the same opportunities or even just a slice of the pie.

sausageeggbacon11 · 21/08/2014 09:02

Scallop what I saying is it takes time we are not going to see a massive change on day one. Look what is happening with Netball where coverage is on sky but it seems less people are tuning in and there are less bums on seats. I worry that netball will even be dropped by schools for handball or volleyball which are getting coverage including olympics (not the beach type). We complain about the lack of coverage but when the match attendance of womens football is lower than division 2 teams in the mens and they get one or two games a year on tv we are going to see the same coverage.

Disappointed though that the England ladies cricket is being shown only on youtube. Same issue though not enough fans attending matches to give the feeling that there will be people watching and therefore sponsorship is limited and advertising isn't there.

First step to revolutionise this would be a marketing strategy to get more people in to watch games. With out that we will not see coverage because the TV will doubt that anyone will watch it. And tonight we have Wales vs England world cup qualifier on BBC3 at 7pm. How many will watch? If it was the men it would be millions, the watching figures will be a big demonstration of where we are.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/08/2014 17:00

Right, thanks sausage, I am going to watch that with DS1. But again, a vicious circle - for the men's game, I would've watched it at home but been aware it was happening because of chalkboard signs outside pubs etc etc (never look at a TV guide!)

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/08/2014 17:05

But I will also mention - it's not in the top 3 'Football' headlines on the BBC's own homepage website or the top 4 'Sports':

BBC Sport

Liverpool agree £16m Balotelli fee
Moody quits Palace over text claims
Who will win the F1 championship?
Youth Olympics: Highlights

Football

Di Maria wants to leave Real Madrid
No regrets over Fabregas - Wenger
AEL Limassol v Tottenham
ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/08/2014 19:52

Cracking header!

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 21/08/2014 20:51

Epic rain!

caroldecker · 21/08/2014 21:13

I think the point is that most games were invented by men, so play to men's strengths. The reason women play seperately is that, at the top level, they are not good enough to beat men, similarly in athletics, the men are faster than the women.
where women compete with men (horsey events) or are better (gymnastics), there is as much coverage as the men's version.
People want to see top level sport, and in most areas, that is the mens game.

CaptChaos · 21/08/2014 21:33

Pretty much everything on earth was invented by men and plays to their strengths.

Maybe we should just give up doing anything to change that, sit at home and knit or something?