Women runners - advice please?

[penguinsaresmall]

Am thinking this is probably the best topic to post in for some good advice - first post here so please be kind!

I've been running for a few months. Started with couch to 5k and really enjoyed how much healthier I've been feeling, so have been running a few times a week ever since. But unwanted attention from men is putting me off.

I sometimes run alone, sometimes with a friend or with DH. I always run in daylight and don't run on the pavement but in parks - I've had joint issues before and was advised by a trainer to run on grass. I also usually have headphones in as listening to music really helps me keep my pace up.

Anyway, the unwanted attention is usually nothing more than leery looks (particularly if there are a group of men I have to run past) and some comments, which I find easier to ignore if I have my headphones on as I can 'pretend' I haven't heard them and don't make eye contact. That's not to say it doesn't annoy me thought.

But there have been a couple of times where it has been much more full on than that and I have actually felt quite unsettled by it. Both times another runner (male) is there. Inevitably because we're not running at the same pace, one of us will pass the other. At that point, the man has either sped up or slowed down to stay with me and try to start a conversation. On the first occasion, I had my headphones in and tried to politely nod but then keep running and pretty much ignore him. But this man seemed determined to keep trying to talk to me, and when I instead ran ahead of him to 'get away' he sped up too and ran directly behind me for a while, before loudly making a sexual remark about my bum.

Two days ago I went to another park, this time with my DH, who is an experienced runner and much fitter than me. We don't stay together as he is much faster than me - so we both run around the park but with him lapping me a few times. So we were doing this and after a while another man started running too. The first time he passed me he made a jokey comment about him being outrun by a woman. I smiled politely and kept running. But then I lapped him a couple more times and each time his remarks started to get more creepy (you look gorgeous, what an arse, keep going love it's doing it for me, etc...). The last time I am coming up to him I do a detour and ignore him completely, which is met by a loud wolf whistle. DH hears it and is looking round from the other side of the park to see what's going on. He starts to jog over to me and the man leaves.

So - my problem is that I now feel uneasy about running on my own, but I don't want to stop doing it. So what do I do? When I told DH what had happened he was really annoyed that he hadn't realised what was going on as he would have come over. And he is saying that if I am worried he will stay with me in future.

But I don't want to feel that I should be 'chaperoned' when running. I should be able to run around the park if I want to without being intimidated and leered at. But on the other hand, I don't know how I can stop it happening, although I shouldn't let it put me off, it has put me off running on my own.

I looked on some running websites for advice for women runners and was actually quite appalled by the huge list of 'do's and 'don't's (mostly don't actually).

Don't run alone
Don't run in the dark
Don't run with headphones in
Don't run without a rape alarm
Don't run without telling others your exact route and when you will be back
Don't run in a quiet area/park

What options does that leave me with?!

FFS actually it seems as if I shouldn't be trying to run at all because I'm clearly putting myself at huge risk by even considering doing it in the first place.

So is it possible to run in public alone and feel safe, and to not get hassled constantly? Or is it just something I have to put up with? I know part of my problem is I really struggle not to be polite (ie to smile, acknowledge, etc) anybody who tries to talk to me.

Sorry this is so long btw.

I've had a few incidents of harassment when out running or cycling, but if have been fortunate that they have not been quite as sustained as the ones you have suffered.

One way of confronting it is to ask your harasser "How would you like it if some bloke was commenting on your arse when you were trying to enjoy your run?" And if they say "It's a compliment", say "No, it's intimidating. Leave me alone".

Sadly, you do have to be feeling brave, and make some sort of assessment of whether you would be safe if they reacted aggressively, but I think it works quite well as they are not expecting or used to having something asked of them, of being the one who is put on the spot for a response, and who knows, maybe it will get some of them thinking a bit.

Thanks for all the responses.

I do need to learn to be more assertive and also to not feel I have to be friendly and polite to everybody - even when they are complete arse holes! Seriously, I apologise for knocking into inanimate objects sometimes!

You've also inspired me to take another look at parkrun. There's one really close to me that runs every week so I really should go for it. I will also order one of those phone holders - so thanks for that suggestion.

I suppose in a way despite being he grand old age of 40, this is one of the few times in my life I've felt so restricted by my gender, and it's shocked me

Oh - the other day I was running along a v crowded footpath by the river. There was a big group of tourists in front of me and a group of young lads coming towards me, so I was more or less jogging on the spot while I waited for there to be a gap for me to get through. One of the lads clearly thought it would be funny to startle me, so snapped his fingers right in front of my face. I responded by screaming abuse at him. Not my finest hour but it did relieve my feelings.

Ps what do people do Barbour running in the winter, when it gets dark so early? Is the only option running hideously early?

In winter I tend to run during the day - I work from home so that's possible for me. But otherwise, running at night is fine if the places you go are reasonably well lit. Wear high-vis clothing and off you go - running in the dark is quite fun. I actually think you're safer running in the dark at 5pm in December than in the not-quite-dark at 10pm in June, if you see what I mean.

How horrible for you OP and others who've experienced this crap. I haven't had anything like as bad as this but I do run with my phone using a running app for distance, speed, altitude etc, and I also have another app that someone could log into online to see where I was - I hate that I might need this though

Re parkrun, there are threads on here so maybe ask on one of them what to expect?

Sorry don't know where the 'Barbour' came from

I run in the day in winter. Probably less than in summer and shorter distances.
For me it's an issue of unlit country roads - I don't want to get run over!

Wow nasty experiences OP. I had a discussion with my DH about feminism a couple of days ago and told him about some comments a group of teenagers made when I was running that day, it was in a secluded area where the path goes through trees away from the road so it felt worrying. My response is tp ignore and speed up, but it enrages me. My DH was horrified and asked why I hadn't told him. Well, because this shit happens All. The. Time. It was a bit of an eye opener for him and he posted sone feminist stuff on FB later about men taking a stand against everyday sexism

Personally I get really irritated about advice like on the running website. I run alone, without a phone and often don't decide the route until I'm out. I don't think I would enjoy group running, and I don't want to feel restricted. For me I will carry on, assume comments are only comments and keep running - I hope you find a way to keep doing it in a way you enjoy.

These are such awful stories. I've had harassment running too and inappropriate comments but not physical assault thankfully.

This goes back to women and spaces doesn't it? Public space is a male space and they don't like you to forget that. I don't think you need to be more assertive, penguins. Being more assertive may even antagonise the situation. That's not very helpful from me but I think the problem is too widespread for you to single-handedly tackle it. Although I think cailindana has a point about taking your phone might make you feel more assertive. It is shit that you need to even think about this stuff.

On a practical note, during the winter I tend to run more in a gym and save the longer runs until the weekend (when I can - DH works shifts so I'm often doing childcare).

I've been running on and off for years and either haven't noticed or this hasn't ever happened to me. I'm pretty outraged on your behalf too.

I don't run with earphones in and go with a group on a weekend morning. I don't need to think about the route or distance because someone else has worked it all out, and they enter local races so it's nice to get in a few events with people I know. I tend to stick to paths and parks where I know others run if I go on my own.
It's crap because I'd rather run on my own, off road where nobody can see me. As a teenager I used to run on the local common - no phone and nobody else around. The thought of doing that now freaks me out!

I don't know if this is good advice, or not, but two things I have done is pretend to take a photo ("Huh? Oh, just in case!) or pretend to phone someone who is nearby, and perhaps giving them a wave, and pointing out the offending man/men.

I run with music so no point making any comments - I can't hear them.

I run on grass in the summer, several laps of a sports field, but now the days are shortening, I have switched my run to the morning. I have to run at 5.30 a.m. due to time restrictions, and now I have a road run I notice I pass several other runners, male and female. We all politely ignore each other but I do feel safer having people around.

I also suffer dodgy knees so just invested in some specialist road running trainers to help ease the strain, and go for a gentle jog rather than outright run.

It is disgusting anyone has to deal with this crap day in day out...but if we must protect ourselves, my advice is to make it clear from your very first interaction that you will not be engaging.

This means the very first words to come from your mouth is not "hi" and a polite smile. it is "I prefer to run alone. Can you go another way, please". Or whatever feels right for the situation.

Nothing - no eye contact, no smile, no politeness. Just a quick statement that makes your intentions very clear.

Chance are you might get a quick "bitch" or F...U" but they will probably leave you alone. if they are insistent - The next words should be "I am calling the police".

Yes it is completely crap that we have to deal with this every day.

DH has been running all his life and has never had any unpleasant experiences while doing so. I on the other hand have been intimidated and embarrassed a few times in the space of a few months

It makes me so angry but i do feel powerless to change it. Other than not smiling at people anymore and being more outwardly 'closed off'.

That's really rough for you, OP. I run a fair bit but mostly in very rural areas. The only time running an in-town park that I ever received any comments was from a homeless guy who would feed ducks from a bench halfway along the circuit - he'd cheer runners on, especially if they went around the ducks, rather than running through them and scaring them off. Where I live now the sight of a person out running is so rare that I mostly get stunned looks if I go running at a time of day people are out. It's sad to say that I now feel fortunate for having received no worse comments or interaction whilst running.

Do you live in the middle of a city/town or would 10-15 minutes drive take you into countryside? If the latter, I'd recommend having a go at running on rural footpaths (along the sides of fields etc - so hopefully ok on your knees) rather than in parks. It's what I do a lot and it's great - any walkers you bump into are generally very pleasant and depending on the area you may find the paths completely deserted. (The paths I run on now are along a very pretty coastline, so generally fairly frequented - the boring fields around my parents' house, on the other hand...!) In my experience there is a different vibe in the countryside than in the city with regards to interaction with other people. You may get side-eyed by a few sheep (or indeed farmers), but I don't know if you'd get the type of people who'd make the kind of comments you've experienced. Apologies if that is a massive generalisation of rural vs urban life! - I think it's probably down to having a lower density of population. Anyway, if you can spare a tenner on the experiment and it would be remotely convenient distance-wise, I'd recommend getting an OS map of a nearby locale and having a go at running there.

It just makes me furious that you have to think up strategies for dealing with this crap, including changing your own (perfectly normal and bothering no one) behaviour, route, having expensive gadgets etc

i gave up running in parks because of dogs. i know you don't want to run on pavements because of your joints, however, i have found thay people are much less likely to say anything to me when i run there vs in a park

for me, i am not so much afraid of being assaulted- it will happen or not because of who i encounter, rather than what i do, and is more likely to happen from someone i know

rather, it is the constant bracing myself for those ugly entitled interactions that come from men thinking you owe them, and their rage when you don't give them what they are expecting

Wow OP, the experiences that you have had are awful! No real advice I am afraid but I would second joining parkrun. Everyone is supportive whatever time you do it in. Maybe also look at what times local running clubs meet to see if it fits?

Whilst these are great though for running and making friends it doesn't address the real issue of being able to run when and where you want without being intimidated. That sucks. Agree that maybe it is best to just ignore apart from a non committal 'alright'.

Hope that you find a solution that suits you.

"This means the very first words to come from your mouth is not "hi" and a polite smile. it is "I prefer to run alone. Can you go another way, please". Or whatever feels right for the situation"

This sounds like a good idea.

Do you follow the Bangs n a Bun/Heels and Spikes blogs? The writer is a keen runner and she may have some ideas.

What are your special road running trainers worldgonecrazy?

OP maybe keep your camera on video mode so that it automatically records any interaction you have.

Post anything untoward to Everyday Sexism. And to the police if appropriate.

AskBasil I don't remember the brand as I don't have them with me, but it wasn't one I had heard of. I went to a specialist running shop where they have one of those gait analyzers and discussed what I needed and why I needed it, and tried on various pairs of running shoes with different levels of support and cushioning. I went to the shop in Temple Street in Birmingham, and they were really un-patronising and very knowledgeable and friendly. I can recommend them highly.