School's response to a pupil transitioning female to male making me uncomfortable...

[MoreCrackThanHarlem]

Hi everyone.
Long time MN'er, and although I haven't posted in this topic before, I am an avid reader and have learned so much from the posters here.

I suppose I am looking for a feminist viewpoint on a situation that has developed at my daughter's school which makes me feel uncomfortable.

A child in my daughter's year at Secondary school has chosen, since Y7, to live as a boy. She was a girl through Primary, a footballing superstar, and was described by many as a 'tomboy', though I dislike the expression myself.

Most of the children in his year have only known him as a boy and are unaware of his past, though there have been many rumours and much gossip about this.

After a few incidents on social media where children have made comments about him actually 'being a girl', he asked to address an assembly to set the record straight.
During this assembly he told the entire year group that he is a boy, has always been a boy, and would like people to stop saying otherwise as it was very upsetting for him.

Since transition he has changed radically, particularly, conforming to social gender stereotypes by having relationships with numerous girls, calling girls 'slags' on FB, and becoming friends with a group of disruptive boys who truant ,drink alcohol and spend lots of time discussing girl's physical assets on FB. Not pleasant.

My daughter's friend has begun a 'relationship' with this boy, and it has gone further than kissing. He has told her he has always been a boy which she believes, and has explained his use of the toilet in the staff office by telling her he has a hormone disorder.

I think school have been complicit in his deceit by allowing him to address the other children during assembly and I worry that my daughter's friend is being prevented from making a fully informed choice with regard to her relationship with him.

I would just like to hear other's thoughts on this, and what, if any, action you would take.

To add, I absolutely support other's choices to live 'as' the opposite sex, though I feel uncomfortable with the idea that he has the right to tell others he has always been a boy, as despite his feelings, this is biologically untrue?

Sorry it's a bit jumbled.

[almondcakes]

I think it is very much relevant that the OP used to be responsible for the child in an activity club, is herself a teacher, knows something of the child's history and has shared this with her daughter.

At least to protect herself and her daughter from being implicated, should anything happen in terms of either a complaint from the boy about bullying and rumours, or a complaint about his or the school's actions from any girl he has a relationship with, the OP should let her concerns be known to the school in confidence to pass all responsibility for dealing with it properly on to them. The OP or her daughter discussing it with other parents or pupils rather than the school would leave their behaviour open to question and future complaint.

[almondcakes]

Sorry if that is incorrect, Coolas and OP. I should maybe phrase that as OP is staff in a school then.

[howdoimakehimnoticeme]

I can't see how it's the OP's business. Really honestly can't. Like a PP I find myself agreeing with SGB.

The OP knows nothing of the situation beyond playground gossip and some of that second hand from a bunch of teenagers.

If I believed everything my teenager told me as gospel I'd be a very foolish lady indeed.

Surely the parents of the girl and boy concerned are more than fit and able to deal with whatever issues arise as and when they think it's appropriate? And are in a better position than the op to talk to the children concerned?

[SirChenjin]

Don't think the OP is a teacher

Buffy - no, I was aware that you didn't mean report him and his parents, but I was curious at to why you thought anyone was at risk - which is normally why SS or the NSPCC are involved, hence my (not strongly negative) questions "Why the NSPCC or social services? What makes you think she is at risk?" It seemed an odd choice of organisation when there are other LGBT organisations better experienced to deal with any questions the OP might have. As for "you seem to be generally rather sceptical of the feminists on the thread" - that's your interpretation, obviously.

As the OP does not know what is really going on it's all conjecture and speculation - we can debate the issue/issues endlessly, but ultimately we don't have the full facts.

[almondcakes]

Sir Chenjin, OP said, 'I am a Pastoral Manager myself, albeit at Primary level.'

So school staff of some sort.

[SirChenjin]

Yes, I saw you subsequent post. School staff of some sort.

[howdoimakehimnoticeme]

Morecrackthanharlem- do you even know if the pupil is transitioning female to male or if they have some other condition? (I am thinking intersex or something similar)

In which case, if you don't know, then the whole premise of the thread is off.

[SirChenjin]

Wow, yes, that was an essay.

I don't think you're saying anything that the majority of us haven't already said (if I've understood correctly) - no-one is excusing his bad behaviour, the OP should raise concerns with the school, the young people involved are what everyone should be concerned with.

Given that no-one knows what's really going on, it's impossible to say that people are so keen to support the trans issue that their eagerness to support this boy might be blinding them to their responsibilities towards others - we simply don't know that. We have absolutely no way of knowing who knows what, who's involved already, what the school is doing/has already done. I would strongly suspect, having involvement with schools through my NHS role, there will be a huge amount of work going on behind the scenes, with multiple agencies involved. Beyond raising her concern with the school, the OP can/should do nothing more.

[SirChenjin]

Re consent - again, we have no way of knowing what the girl knows/doesn't know.

[almondcakes]

Buffy, if the girl does intimate things with someone who has not disclosed their biological sex prior to that, she cannot give consent.

I am aware that people under sixteen cannot consent to sexual acts, but realistically, we do not carry out sex education in such a way we do not let pupils know of various risks connected to sexual activity until they reach the age of sixteen.

The problem is one where the government (and by extension this school with the agreement of various people on this thread) is still using words like boy, woman etc to refer to biological sex while also referring to trans people as their gender.

This means that young people are not being educated to understand that when adults say someone is a boy, that person may not be a boy in the sense they tell you on every other occasion the word boy refers to.

That leaves young people totally unprepared for sexual activity where someone's gender and biological sex are not one and the same thing, putting the onus of dealing with the situation on trans people and their partners with no support. This is completely unfair on the trans person, who then has to disclose or potentially be commiting a crime. And it leaves trans people and the partners of trans people at risk because they have not had any relevant sex or relationship education.

The sex education material used in schools (See the FPA website for example) talks in terms of boys' bodies - checking testicles etc and girls' bodies - periods, pregnancy, and this is reinforced in other subjects, in questions in GCSE exam papers and so on.

It is not preparing children to understand that some people the school tell you is a boy have a vulva, breasts etc. It isn't educating you about whether you can discuss such matters about your partner with others, or if so, who you can share them with. It isn't educating you about it being potentially a crime not to disclose your sex prior to sexual activity. It is leaving the onus entirely on the trans person and their partner to deal with such issues themselves.

Surely the best course of action for this school (and all others) to take, would be to educate pupils properly about this issue.

If this was any other issue involving boys who were calling girls slags etc and showing little respect for girls, I don't think posters on here would be saying it was fine for the girl and boy to resolve sexual intimacy between themselves. We would surely be saying that the school had an obligation to offer sex and relationship education around sex and consent issues that was relevant to the society we live in and situations they could realistically find themselves in.

[Littleturkish]

coolas I worry that by permitting the assembly in the first place that this school is NOT taking advice and seems to be making some unwise decisions.

I would be really unhappy if I was in the OP's position, and even unhappier if what she suspects is true, that a young girl is in a relationship that is becoming sexual with a person who was concealing their biological gender.

[almondcakes]

Buffy, no the laws around not promoting homosexuality were abolished in 2003, just after my eldest started school.

I think the issue is that society as a whole is promoting ignorance and confusion, not trans people, but the onus to then manage the disclosure and the education of the potential sexual partner is then on the trans person. That seems to me very unfair and unethical treatment of both trans people and their partners.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

I'm not sure what posters want the school to do, they cannot disclose any information about the boy to anyone without getting themselves in to major trouble.

I would hope that his attitude towards girls and behaviour issues are being dealt with by counselling and support.

[CabbagePatchCheryl]

Buffy I couldn't agree more about the failures of sex ed to keep up with the world we live in. I very much hope that specific lessons on consent will be given soon.

I understand what you are saying about answering points with "we just don't know" but I think it is relevant because the OP was asking if she should involve herself in the situation and it's clear that she doesn't know all the facts. Hence we are saying (as you did yourself) that it should be approached with caution and a very light touch by OP i.e. flag up in confidence and with the proviso that she is acting merely on a suspicion and then let appropriate parties deal with it.

If I came across as unsympathetic, I'm not. Just concerned that boy in question may be being treated as if he was inherently more of a "risk" than any other teenage boy who might exhibit poor behaviour and lie/dissemble/pressurise when it comes to sex.

[almondcakes]

BBJ, I would want the school to:

A. Deal with the misogyny of some of their pupils towards other pupils.
B. Make sure that all pupils in the school were being educated around biological sex and gender in PSE, and any lessons where the two were conflated. Making sure that all teaching materials for sex and relationship education reflected that (e.g. no materials from the family planning association or similar)
C. Have an expert come in to talk to the whole school about trans issues, perhaps in connection with other talks around gay rights, autism etc, rather than it being singled out as an issue so that pupils might assume it was about one particular child.
D. Advise the OP on what they want her dd to say or not say if asked by other pupils, given that she has already disclosed information about the other child's past.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

almondcakes

If the op goes in with that list I would hope that the school would be extremely supportive and hopefully implement them.

[MoreCrackThanHarlem]

Just caught up with the thread.

I am not a teacher, though not sure of the relevance here. I am, as I said, Pastoral Manager of a large inner city Primary.

The group I am inv

[howdoimakehimnoticeme]

whenthered - I don't think the OP knows what sort of body the boy has. Whether he is male bodied, female bodied, intersex or any other sort of body.