This is he-man

[McBear]

I've just seen (on fb- sorry) a picture with an image of barbie and he-man. Underneath barbie, it has the caption 'This is barbie. Throughout the years she has been the centre of much controversy because feminists claim she represents an unrealistic, unhealthy and unfair standard of beauty leading to a 'crisis' for young girls and their self esteem.

Underneath he-man it says 'This is he-man'

I'll try and find a link to the picture but it did get me thinking... He man is the 'epitome of manliness' as are a lot of comic book heroes/boys dolls. (Not including weedy captain America and Peter Parker, though obviously they 'improve' when they are handsome, tall and muscular) Why are they not seen as damaging to young boys?

I, personally, think it's because of the pressure society puts on women and them stereotypically seen as weaker. Women are taught to compete for male attention, men compete for jobs/sports and therefore success.

It does raise a good point for me though that men are shown the same ideals but do not feel the same pressure to comply.

Interesting, Treats. Does cartoon Spider-Man make much of the back story?

My 5 year old DS doesn't give a toss if the film's central character is male or female so long as it's a good film. So he likes Frozen, Tangled etc and also Toy Story and the Lego Movie.

Is that not true of all kids that age?

Theres a sinister level or two of undercurrent to the linked picture. On one theres the silencing of women through their weird use of Double Standards and on another theres the implication of if we really want equality we must start campaigning for men too otherwise we are just a load of hot air.
Another 'thing' on our plates.

Its the whole womens work thing Buffy, sure the women are doing it anyway whats one more thing .

I saw a disgusting meme on facebook a couple of weeks ago with the wonderful tag line Feminism:The right to hit a bitch completed with a comic picture of a smiling man with a drink in his hand. This delightful piece of shit had thousands of likes . Women come up against this crap in varying degrees every day. We are fucking sick and tired that the patriarchy just do not get it or don't want to get it. But we keep going. So menz if He Man bothers you so much then do what millions of women have been doing for centuries and do something about it.

Revolutionary idea, but if men are so pissed off about harmful hyper masculine tropes they could, oh I don't know, challenge them? Themselves.

Yes, but how are they going to find the time? Policing women challenging sexist tropes is time consuming, vital work.

I agree with you, Buffy Also, in further answer to Dad's point about not letting DS wear superhero costumes as well as not letting DD wear princess outfits because both are harmful - not quite! The reason why boys/men are queuing at the cinema to see the harmful thing that they are supposed to aspire to (identified by DAD as "performance" rather than looks) is because the "performance" in question, here, is superpowers which, in thses storylines, are acquired by ordinary men having a supernatural encounter (radioactive spiders or whatever) and getting an extreme version of performance. This is, therefore, clearly extraordinary and fictional and makes for an exciting storyline. The female equivalent would be an ordinary woman being bitten by a radioactive parrot and acquiring an extreme version of looks and dress-sense - which may not make for such an exciting film.

Women's bodies to aspire to are all about being thin, fragile, tiny and having over the top sexual organs which means plastic surgery.
Men's are about muscles, strength and health. Both can be unrealistic of course but women are told don't eat and cut your body up whereas men are told be strong, confident, athletic. That's the key difference to me.

Percentage of the time girls are bombarded with images and prose which imply they should aim to be a pretty airhead

vs

Percentage of the time boys are bombarded with images and prose which imply they should develop huge muscles and wield a sword

People interested in promoting equality probably spend about the same proportion of their time raising awareness of the importance of these issues, as the incidence and depth of the problems.

I disagree that rolemodels for boys shouldn't overly concern feminists - if we want our daughters to grow up in a world where they aren't deemed responsible for all the shitwork in relationships then the Macho stuff has to go... Otherwise you end up with a generation of women who know it's not their job in life to do all the cleaning battling with men who don't think they've got more important things to do with their time...

This is why I really like some super pink children's shows like my little pony, yes the pink is undeniable but the rolemodel's for girls AND boys are great.

*men who think they've got more important things to do with their time.

Bad editing from me there.

AMumInScotland

Yes - this! Because it's not just about Barbie - it's about photoshopping virtually every darn image that a young girl will see of a woman's naked or part-naked body, until her own body looks "wrong" to her, it's about headlines down the "Femail" sidebar, etc, etc. Barbie isn't really the problem, she just represents a much much wider trend of critiquing women's bodies and making them feel that an impossible standard is what they should aspire to.

True, it's not a great meme, obviously.

But I think it's worth saying that equality won't be achieved merely by convincing girls they can do and look like anything and still be female. Boys need the same message for the good of their female counterparts as well as their own wellbeing.

The female equivalent would be an ordinary woman being bitten by a radioactive parrot and acquiring an extreme version of looks and dress-sense - which may not make for such an exciting film.

But the female equivalent would not be an action movie, it would be more like Miss Congeniality, Pretty Woman, Princess Diaries, Devil Wears Prada etc. Any movie where a woman makes a journey from being a caterpillar to a butterfly.

Not really, Dad, in all of those the change is in the context of "real life" not an outside, supernatural agent.

Batman is closer as classic Batman doesn't have superpowers, he's a human who disguises himself. Not sure if that's still the message of Batman.

The dimensions, for both barbie and heman, are impossible to achieve with out surgery. He-man is not a super hero, maybe he had a magic sword or something.
I think the problem comes when you compare the pressure on girls/women body image vs men's. Pressure is vastly skewed to women and much more damaging.
Regarding, barbie and he-man, I don't think they are that bad in the scheme of things. They are fictional/toys/cartoons. Cartoons present many fantasy worlds. Talking animals, violence and being blown up, defying the laws of physics, etc. all taken with a pinch of salt.

He man is a superhero, he also had magical powers. I know people in real life who have body shapes not dissimilar to his, both in his Prince Adam mode and as HeMan.

Barbie however cannot be replicated in human anatomy, because if she was, she would be unable to walk. Or keep her head upright, which might put a bit of a crimp in her day.

Is this image even worth the bother to debate? I can't abide these arguments that because one thing is being campaigned for a similar thing is trotted out as if in opposition.

The image I was commenting on said nothing about 'feminist double standards' it only stated the words below Barbie that I wrote in the OP.

For me, barbies body (not including boobs but a push up would hugely help) is more achievable than he-mans. Not saying either is easy and both are extremes at the end of either spectrum.

I do not think anything on this poster has asked for a woman to defend a man, they are capable of doing that themselves. I simply think it a thought provoking picture to make you realise it is not solely a woman's problem. We simply see barbie in a different light to how they see he-man or similar. However, I see no reason why we wouldn't defend a man. Do we not wish for them to help us? If we want equality we can only reach that with them. As someone said, helping them will help our daughters.

Barbie's figure is more achievable than He-Man's? Have you seen it? Where do her internal organs go? Why are her thighs so thin and her legs so disproportionate? Her boobs are the least of her problems IMO.

I didn't think it was that bad till I saw one of my niece's dolls with no clothes on. Barbie is grotesque.

For me, barbies body (not including boobs but a push up would hugely help) is more achievable than he-mans. Not saying either is easy and both are extremes at the end of either spectrum.

You're obviously on a wind up.

The actual human version has a better physique than He-Man does, whereas, the pictures I posted upthread of how a human Barbie would look are ridiculous.

As someone said, helping them will help our daughters.

Men really, really don't need our help here.

I can't see any pictures as am on mobile app.

Not on a wind up at all. Put it this way, some women are naturally tiny and small waisted. No man is naturally Arnold Schwarzenegger.

No woman is naturally anything like the same shape as Barbie. Try looking on safari or chrome :)

And He-Man had much more well formed legs than Arnie.... his legs were rubbish.