This is he-man

[McBear]

I've just seen (on fb- sorry) a picture with an image of barbie and he-man. Underneath barbie, it has the caption 'This is barbie. Throughout the years she has been the centre of much controversy because feminists claim she represents an unrealistic, unhealthy and unfair standard of beauty leading to a 'crisis' for young girls and their self esteem.

Underneath he-man it says 'This is he-man'

I'll try and find a link to the picture but it did get me thinking... He man is the 'epitome of manliness' as are a lot of comic book heroes/boys dolls. (Not including weedy captain America and Peter Parker, though obviously they 'improve' when they are handsome, tall and muscular) Why are they not seen as damaging to young boys?

I, personally, think it's because of the pressure society puts on women and them stereotypically seen as weaker. Women are taught to compete for male attention, men compete for jobs/sports and therefore success.

It does raise a good point for me though that men are shown the same ideals but do not feel the same pressure to comply.

<a class="break-all" href="http://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KLj.vl3edTBQoAvglNBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZjd1cmVkBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANhM2ZmNjJiYjE5ZTM5ZDUyZGRmNWZiNWVhYjhmYmE3OQRncG9zAzI1BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=this+is+he-man&fr=iphone&fr2=piv-web&tab=organic&ri=25&w=683&h=681&imgurl=media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1c/92/a4/1c92a4e945fa0c10dd5ac2b15977bbf6.jpg&rurl=www.pinterest.com/pin/117023290291508340/&size=73.9KB&name=This+is+He-man.&p=this+is+he-man&oid=a3ff62bb19e39d52ddf5fb5eab8fba79&fr2=piv-web&fr=iphone&tt=This+is+He-man.&b=0&ni=21&no=25&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11gteu17a&sigb=138bk4061&sigi=12dk351lr&sigt=10m6in4mg&sign=10m6in4mg&.crumb=GN2iCKxjI9q&fr=iphone&fr2=piv-web" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KLj.vl3edTBQoAvglNBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZjd1cmVkBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANhM2ZmNjJiYjE5ZTM5ZDUyZGRmNWZiNWVhYjhmYmE3OQRncG9zAzI1BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=this+is+he-man&fr=iphone&fr2=piv-web&tab=organic&ri=25&w=683&h=681&imgurl=media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1c/92/a4/1c92a4e945fa0c10dd5ac2b15977bbf6.jpg&rurl=www.pinterest.com/pin/117023290291508340/&size=73.9KB&name=This+is+He-man.&p=this+is+he-man&oid=a3ff62bb19e39d52ddf5fb5eab8fba79&fr2=piv-web&fr=iphone&tt=This+is+He-man.&b=0&ni=21&no=25&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11gteu17a&sigb=138bk4061&sigi=12dk351lr&sigt=10m6in4mg&sign=10m6in4mg&.crumb=GN2iCKxjI9q&fr=iphone&fr2=piv-web

You mean this?

Interesting comparison of it from a blog post as well.

I won't link to the blog, because apparently all feminists care about is looks and not that Barbie is a vapid twit....

On mobile so can't see pics

DD is not allowed to watch barbie because her DF thinks she's a vapid twit and he doesn't want her growing up like that. However, she does watch it because barbie has had a billion careers, some of which are high powered. I think this shows DD that girls can achieve. Her DF disagrees tho.

So...feminists should be campaigning for better role models for boys? Don't they have enough on their plates trying to level the playing field for females

What about the menz writ large, surely? Why don't MEN complain about He-Man and the unrealistic expectations he sets up, instead of expecting feminists to do it for them?

Who said anything about men expecting us to do it?

Agreed poguemahon. This type of comparison/competition with women's reality always seems to come hand in hand in these campaigns/memes about the problems men face. You see it in a whole spectrum of other issues. Why can't they just state what shift in men's experiences they are seeing and do the leg work themselves?

I think the fact it says Feminist double standard at the top of the picture implies that feminists should be fighting for both.

Barbie is meant to be a woman.

He man etc are meant to be super heroes.

Girls grow up to be women.

Boys do not grow up to be superheroes.

Hopefully everyone knows this and so can see why Barbie is more sexist.

Good point!

Another thing.... He-Man's body, while difficult to achieve, it is possible to get close. Barbie's isn't without serious plastic surgery and the amazing inability to hold your head up on your tiny neck. Or walk.

Hmmm. I find this very interesting. There are multiple versions of this image but basically two different types. As near as I can research, the caption 'Feminist Double Standard' is an addition to an earlier image which did not feature it. Otherwise the images are the same.

Minus that caption, with the accusation of double standard removed, I can read in many other ways, some positive and some negative. A positive view would be as a male issue unrelated to feminism that uses feminism to illustrate men failing to recognise and question damaging representations of male masculinity in the same way women have questioned their own. I would love to find the original of this image and see what the creators intent was. I will go dig more if I have time.

There are a couple of issues with this as I see it:

1. He-Man's body is achievable, even if unlikely, Barbie's isn't.

1. He-Man's body is about strength, Barbie's signals sexual availability, weakness and PINK.

1. He-Man is one of a number of male body types that are acceptable, attractive and fictional. Barbie's is pretty much the norm for teen dolls, porn, plastic surgery and film.

A muscular torso being de rigeur is also a fairly recent phenomenon, compared to Standard Female Beauty. Humphrey Bogart with his shirt off (The African Queen, for example) looks like my old dad with his shirt off.

Whenever I see the phrase 'Feminist Double Standard' (my caps) I actually think 'Women. Know. Your. Place'. It's just another way to shut women up.

I think the fact it says Feminist double standard at the top of the picture implies that feminists should be fighting for both.

I do think we feminists could stop promoting the he man ideal, though.

So to find a comparable male unrealistic body standard to Barbie who has been consistently popular for decades, they had to go back to a cartoon from the 80s?

I just asked my 5 year old. He knew who Barbie was instantly, but didn't have a clue who He-Man is. He is, however, familiar with Spider-Man etc, who have far more 'normal' body shapes.

Ha yes Apocalypse. I'll petition to get it removed from the manifesto

"I do think we feminists could stop promoting the he man ideal, though."

But feminists don't promote the He man ideal though.

It's not really up to feminists to actually take the lead on fighting for men's issues, although supporting them is a good thing. Having said that I think feminists more than anyone see and point out the damage that these extreme warrior ideals of masculinity do to boys and to society.

Its the context though. Barbie, alone, is not that damaging, if she was one of many children's characters aimed at girls, just one emaciated vapid twit alongside characters showing women with real bodies doing awesome things, being strong and accomplished. But alongside all the Disney princess crap and the many, many other ways girls are taught to be "the weaker sex", from birth, barbie is a problem.

Are boys being taught that they're there to look a certain way, regardless of their intelligence or individual strengths and talents? No, so a muscular superhero toy is not such a problem. In fact, where are all the female superhero toys?!

And much is made of barbie having "careers", but the emphasis is still on her looks. Sure, barbie can be a doctor but only if she's wearing pink high heels, hair perfectly coiffed, mini skirt on.

"I do think we feminists could stop promoting the he man ideal, though."

Ok, I'll scrap the "Equal Pay for Equal Shirtlessness" posters...

But feminists don't promote the He man ideal though.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

are you thinking that feminists all give a fuck about what barbie looks like?

Please try to see this in masculine terms.

Body image is not commonly the can of worms for men that it is for women. Performance is the can of worms for men and adolescent males pay for it with a mortality rate that speaks for itself, loud and clear.

Saying he-man is a super-hero so it defeats the point of comparison to Barbie... you need to understand... it IS the point. The physique of he-man you identify with is incidental, that’s why spider man can be thin... as long as he has super powers he has what boys want him to have.

I would never dress my daughter as barbie and I would never dress my son as a super hero, essentially for much the same reason.

Actually this kind of chimes in with a bit of a weird double standard I see - everyone is happy to attack the things that young girls like as being bad for them or a poor role model, but not to attack the things that young boys like - even though they're no better.

E.g. My 4yo DD loves her Disney princesses but mostly because they're practically the only films where women feature in central roles, which is what she wants to watch. But the world at large looks down on Disney princesses because they're all about looks and finding a man. I don't disagree with this, but there's a lack of anything better.

My 4yo nephew loves Spiderman and Batman. Now you could say that these aggressive, socially awkward loners are bad role models for young boys, but no - respected actors play them in big budget film versions that adults queue around the block to watch.

I don't get the superhero/ real person distinction - they're all stories about fictional people.