Frank Maloney - Gender Reassignment

[CKDexterHaven]

Lived over 60 years with full male privileges - Check
Rose to the top of a male-dominated profession - Check
Right-wing political candidate for UKIP - Check
Homophobic public comments - Check
Believes in family values and traditional morality - Check
Believes in a 'female brain' (like people used to believe in a 'negro brain' and a 'Jewish brain') - Check

Nasty radical feminists are meant to be the reactionary ones but, to me, it is the transactivist movement that is conservative, homophobic and longs for the days when homosexuality was criminalised and men were men and women were women.

Yes Buffy it's ironic. They also want to nuke Mumsnet and calls us "70's era vintage filth". Charming.

Using the death threats on Twitter are aimed at TERFs. That one was unusual because it included all feminists. I have never heard of a feminist, radical or otherwise, killing or attacking transwomen. Transwomen did attack members of Deep Green Resistance, they glitterbombed Germaine Greer, they teamed up with MRAs to stop conferences, they picketed the memorial event for the victims of Marc Lépine. Transwomen have raped and murdered women.

It's typical MRA logic to say that feminists are murdering transwomen.

There is another post on Twitter from a transwoman saying Cathy Brennan and her children don't deserve to live, so, yeah, it could be your children too.

I was quoted

ffs.

Seven, yes, and your friends for good measure.

And your and their hair set on fire.

and they want to set yours and their hair on fire even.... wtf happened there!? lol

I have had a couple of people threaten to set my hair on fire and they were blokes which suggests that thinking of setting a woman's hair on fire is a sign of 'bloke brain'.

The threats are not funny at all. I had a laugh, more of a snort really, about the reddit post saying we don't understand sexual dimorphism. Wuh?

I'd like to see all TAs in a room discussing transgender theory. They'd be at each others' throats in 10 mins since every one of them has their own special snowflake theory.

Cathy Brennan must be frightened.

Do the transactivists genuinely think that they are going to be murdered by feminists?

There is a difference here isn;t there. Women and girls take threats of rape, violence and murder very seriously, for good reason. Do the transactivists genuinely believe they are going to be killed, have suck threats even been issued?

I imagine they would describe me as a terf BTW and so assume they would want to cut the throats of my children. What about my husband - is he OK? Or would they not threaten him what with him being a massive bloke n all.

FFS it's same old same old isn't it. Anyone who claims that there is no societal underlying threat of violence against women keeping us in our place is bonkers. And this particular threat is just ridiculous. If you are a woman then don't threaten other women with rape and murder and threaten their children. This is not normal female behaviour. FFS. Are you a woman or not? You don't get to say you need to be able to access my rape services with one hand and threaten to kill me and my children with the other. This is an incoherent approach.

suck threats

lol

retract that one

try such threats

Sorry went to lunch.

*Do you accept that the male and female of most species exhibit difference behaviour?

No.*

Really? Fair enough. I think most biologists would disagree though.

I'll ask one back: what makes you imagine animals don't exhibit their own socialised behaviour? Why would humans be unique in being conditioned by society?

I think that the size of our population, the frequency and complexity of the interactions, and the level of communication between humans is unique to our species and therefore socialisation is a far far bigger factor. What makes male penguins sit on the egg all winter while the females go and gather food, rather than vice versa? Is it really just because they see all the other males doing it and follow suit?

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Does this mean that a person who identifies more with femaleness than maleness is automatically female and not male? This is what transgenderism appears to argue. For that to be as true and real as some would want, everyone must agree to believe in innate femaleness and innate maleness.

I don't know what "identifying" with femaleness and maleness means. If you only have one brain, how can you know that yours is "more female" or "more male" than the average? I don't pretend to understand how transgendered people feel.

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Pointing at a few people who meet gender stereotypes at their most extreme and saying "that's how it is" ignores the fact that most people are a mix of attributes and interests labelled "masculine" or "feminine" and leaves for eg men who want to work in childcare or women who want to race cars up shit creek quite frankly.

Yes it is - good job no-one in this thread is doing that!

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When research that comes out that suggests having a certain gene makes you more likely to be a violent criminal, or more likely to suffer from depression etc, no-one comes out shouting "BS!". So why are genetic differences on chromosomes OTHER than XX / XY "allowed" to affect behaviour, but any differences on the sex chromosomes not?

Now I'm not saying that any differences IF they are any more relevant or have any more predictive value than...what type of belly button you have for example. I'm just making the point that from a logical point of view its not unreasonable to believe their could be differences there, especially seeing as we have very little idea how the brain works. Yes, some people would twist that as a reason to discriminate against women. But even if tomorrow proof appeared to say that there was no difference at all, these people would find another "reason" to "justify" their discrimination.

I'm feeling really pissed off now.

The idea that people would genuinely want to slit the throats of my children because I think male/female gendered socialisation and enforcement of said gender roles is a pile of shite.

WTF?

It's violent entitled misogyny, nothing new but definitely dangerous.
Those transactivists who threatens feminists have a lot in common with MRA's. They think feminism is a hate group too.

"When research that comes out that suggests having a certain gene makes you more likely to be a violent criminal, or more likely to suffer from depression etc, no-one comes out shouting "BS!"."

They do though. A lot of things around socialisation, upbringing, experiences, socio-economic group and so-forth. Scientists don't generally shout "bullshit" though, they say things more like "I'm not sure you are able to fully correct for X by using blah and blah" & so on, I'm not a scientist though

With your happy 1950s me tarzan you jane way of life, as is reflected in the animal kingdom and therefore must be true for all humans, and focussing in on your penguin talk, I am worried about gay penguins. Which one is tarzan and which one is jane?

Lots of people do shout bs about genes for violence and depression.

And nobody has, as far as I know, ever suggested they have found a gene that only existed in either xx or xy people that determined any particular behaviour.

"I don't know about you lot but I don't think that's a supportable conclusion."

Where's the research on what jobs people of different hair colours are most suited to? Or left and right handed people? Maybe there are some studies, but they will have generated much less a) interest, and b) actual consequences for how society understands itself and therefore the life chances of left handed brunettes.

This was kind of my point. It's not the presence of any possible differences that is the problem, it is the belief that they are in any way relevant in today's world.

This is the kind of thing I mean:

www.webmd.com/women/features/low-pain-threshold-heres-why

Something in female genetics causes fewer beta endorphins to be produced, causing the brain to have a lower pain threshold. Does that mean I can assume the lady next to me has a lower pain threshold than me? No. Does it mean I can assume anything about her ability in any walk of life? No. But surely we are still allowed to acknowledge this research?
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And nobody has, as far as I know, ever suggested they have found a gene that only existed in either xx or xy people that determined any particular behaviour.

But it's feasible? That's all I'm saying. I dunno, maybe we have evolved out of this by now? But then again the appendix has stuck around and that's been useless for a long time.
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Just saw the twitter stuff - I despair.

The recent economist article found that female prostitutes with blonde hair could charge a higher rate than other hair colours.

So that's linked to hair colour and jobs. And is very useful information for both women working in prostitution and the men buying them.

In case anyone is wondering my post is aimed at the "isn't it interesting what researchers choose to research" part of the conversation.

Researching what researchers of human behaviour research and looking at their premises and methodology would be very interesting possibly.

Although maybe it's just the filter of the media that makes it all look rather skewed.

That article is interesting Harold, the original research used, I believe, only 62 participants, 22 men, 20 women and 20 women with a pain disorder called TMD.

Not statistically significant enough IMO to suggest anything. So I acknowledge the research but would suggest that it is limited and only of more general value in a large scale meta-analysis. It's useful to other scientists to build on, but it's very much the sort of small scale research jumped on and overblown as it has been on Web MD.

From a brief scan of the paper it also fails to recognise that women are often socialised to be 'weaker' when it comes to pain, or that men are expected to be stoic bearers of discomfort (obviously this is a gross generalisation but drawn from observations on stereotypes). It also ignored the role played by the mind on pain, it is focused very much on the purely physiological.