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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

American girl in Italy photograph

19 replies

Aradia · 02/08/2014 22:55

My mum showed me a print of a photograph the other day that she is planning to put in a frame on the wall. The photo is this, titled 'American girl in Italy'. My mum loves it, thinks it's a great photo but I felt a bit sick when I looked at it. The girl looks scared IMO and the men are looking at her in such a predatory way. I didn't say anything to my mum and don't know if my reaction is over the top but I honestly felt my stomach flip when I saw it. Am I overreacting? What are your thoughts?

OP posts:

MrsLettuce · 02/08/2014 23:05

It is a great photo, it's also quite disturbing.

scallopsrgreat · 02/08/2014 23:05

I'm with you. The way she's clutching her shawl is very protective. And all the men staring at her seems intimidating especially as a couple look as if they are shouting something at her or whistling. And then there's the bloke standing directly in her path not looking like he's going to move either.

MrsLettuce · 02/08/2014 23:08

Oh, hell, yes, I'm with you too - if that wasn't clear. Reminded me of the horribly romanticised Kissing Sailor photo. Also a great photo but, yeah.

KeatsiePie · 02/08/2014 23:15

Yeah, I think it is depressing. It's a classic illustration of the mistaken and offensive ideas that 1) it's charming and delightful when women are catcalled and leered at while walking down the street and 2) men in Italy, Spain, Greece, etc. are fiery passionate lovermen who can't keep themselves from doing so b/c it's in their blood.

Bluestocking · 02/08/2014 23:20

I wouldn't want it on my wall. You might feel a bit better about it once you've read this - an interview with the woman in the photo. She was friends with the photographer, who was also female, and it was to some extent staged.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 02/08/2014 23:23

It was a posed photo though, as Bluestocking says.

The girl is a model, and the photographer asked the men to act as they did.

There was an article somewhere earlier this year about it.

Floop · 02/08/2014 23:24

I'd point this out to my mum. I agree with you OP.

She wouldn't care though. She accepts 'dirty old men' as completely normal and something we have to put up with.

RJnomore · 02/08/2014 23:25

WHAT is the central man with Thr umbrella doing ?ith his other hand?

Original poster

Aradia · 02/08/2014 23:25

Glad it's not just me! I don't think it would bother me quite as much if she looked happy or confident but she doesn't does she? She looks afraid and intimidated. It is a good photograph in that it captures a moment in time but the subject is horribly depressing. I really hope my mum doesn't get round to framing it.

OP posts:

KeatsiePie · 02/08/2014 23:35

Hmm, Blue thanks for the link! Just read it. Sort of not sure to think now.

I mean, I still do think what I said before about the stereotypes it's illustrating, and for that reason I don't like it.

But I see how that's not the take the photographer and the woman in the photo had on the situation. Kind of reminds me of that Maud Hart Lovelace book Betsy and the Great World -- I feel like I remember Betsy being flattered by all the attention she got from men in Europe, and only rarely slightly uncomfortable, as mostly they were all such gentlemen. And there is that line in the interview from the woman in the photo, talking about how Italian men make you feel appreciated ... so this is partly about how a woman felt about that kind of attention then, and/or how she had been taught to feel about it. Which is complicated. I remember being young and in Europe with my parents and liking at that men looked at me; they certainly didn't at home, and I think honestly it can be flattering and fun to be in a foreign place and feel like you are being noticed for being pretty.

Maybe it's just that a small moment of appreciation can make a woman feel nice, but can just as easily make a woman feel uncomfortable, and either way the woman also knows that it might escalate into something dangerous. Sorry, I am not articulating any of this very well.

Original poster

Aradia · 02/08/2014 23:38

Ah x post, thank you for that link I do feel a bit better after reading that. I still don't like the photo or subject matter though, I have to say. And her body language and facial expression is not that of someone 'having a wonderful time'. Street harassment isn't romantic or flattering.

OP posts:

Original poster

Aradia · 02/08/2014 23:46

X post again, sorry that wasn't aimed at you Keats, that's just my opinion. Male attention can of course be flattering sometimes, I think it's more like you say about the potential for danger or the intimidation that women can feel just walking down the street and being treated like a piece of meat. I'm not articulating myself very well either. It's interesting that there is that fine line between flattery and something more sinister.

OP posts:

VerityWaves · 02/08/2014 23:49

My best friend has this hanging in her breakfast room directly where we sit for coffee.

It makes me sick but I can't mention it to her. The girl looks scared. It is a hateful photo and I just can't understand why she off all people would have it hanging up. What dies it say to her daughter?

WhentheRed · 04/08/2014 00:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AICM · 04/08/2014 06:57

It’s not a symbol of harassment. It’s a symbol of a woman having an absolutely wonderful time.

DadWasHere · 04/08/2014 08:02

Its an iconic photo taken in the early 1950's. In a sense it does not matter if it was staged or not, it was a flat out grim era for women all round. You could trot out all manner of sexist advertising around that decade that is beyond outrageous today. Google overflows with it:

www.gurl.com/2012/10/30/sexist-vintage-ads/#1

Tanacot · 04/08/2014 08:26

But she looks so unhappy. It's so interesting and yet bewildering that she says she was having a wonderful time. Her face here much larger, her gripping the shawl across her chest (defensive posture), her downcast gaze (submission), her eyebrows - furrowed and lifted at the centre and sharply slanting away (consternation) everything about her posture is communicating anxiety.

ApocalypseThen · 04/08/2014 08:37

Even if it is staged, it communicates something that I think we are all aware of feeling. Personally, I doubt the photographer planned it as a nice picture for a household wall.

TheSameBoat · 04/08/2014 11:07

She doesn't look like she's having a nice time. Maybe the subject felt she had to say she was having a nice time because it would otherwise change the picture into something far less saleable (not sure "American girl gets harrassed by a bunch of Italian sleazeballs" has quite the same iconic glamorous feel to it)

Or maybe she'd actually convinced herself she was having a nice time because in those days (and today still to some extent) women were convinced that such attention was flattering.

But her face certainly tells a different picture I'm sure that not even a hardened DM reader could argue she was happy from her facial expression and body language.

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