Offensive comments and anxiety

[CatKisser]

Hope it's ok putting this here - it's a bit self indulgent but I'm struggling a bit and need a feminist point of view.

There was an article linked here recently which asked women "when you look in the mirror, do you see you or now do you think about how you appear to the men who will see you?" Or similar. It really made me think. Everything I do is governed by a fear of "I'll look a twat if I..." Or "I'll look vile if I.." Largely because I'm big.

Just been for a beer with a male friend, who's physically a lot smaller than me. Very thin and not very tall. It's never occurred to me before but I suppose we must look quite a contrasting pair. We left the pub and a group of older men did the obligatory tit stare and started guffawing. I just knew they were taking the piss. One said "oh my god quick! Get a picture of them!"

In the grand scheme I know it's not massive, but it made me uncomfortable and pissed off. I am cursed with stupid big breasts as well and apparently these are public property and available to be commented on whenever people feel the need.

Just why can't some men (and it is only men in me experience) keep their stupid thoughts to themselves and consider that their amusement might be causing real pain? I'm getting a bit worried about how much a overthink before I go out these days and not sure how to deal with it.

Thanks if you've read all that.

I may not be very coherent, and this is sort of half thought out.

I know women who are very average (not as in unattractive, but nothing about them particularly for others to mock) who are very worried about how they appear due to messages about the beauty standard and more general criticism of them during childhood. It seems to cause them great distress.

Then there are women who have something about them other people can notice and mock them for. With something like large breasts that quickly becomes sexual. Anybody in that situation would feel upset about it surely? Nobody wants to go out in public and have others make hurtful remarks. It is something being generated by others and aimed at you as an individual. It isn't anything you are doing or a way you are internally feeling that generates it. It is their behaviour.

"In the grand scheme I know it's not massive, but it made me uncomfortable and pissed off."

don't minimise it in terms of your response - you have every right to feel pissed off as you have the right to go about your business without harassment, just enjoying a nice evening and causing no one any bother, and yet you're subject to this kind of sexist arseholery

i do understand what you mean about almost living outside yourself thinking about how others might see you. i read an article about a woman who struggled with sex because she couldn't stop thinking about what she would look like if another person (other than her partner) were watching, and feeling that they would be disgusted. it's living through the male gaze, and it's difficult to extricate yourself from

This is an unfortunate phenomenon in our highly sexist culture that sees the female body as something to be displayed, judged and commented on.

"Why don't men keep their hurful comments to themselves" They can't because they see it as their birth right to let you know what they think of your body.

I am speaking as someone with an average totally non-descript female body. God forbid I have a female face too! Not a week goes by without a man I have never met demanding I do something about my face "Smile" for example, or to make sure I know he has looked at my body and judged it.

I had "Legs" shouted out to me the other week, to remind me that I actually have legs I presume, as being a woman I obviously don't know how it's possible I'm able to walk around!

Just to let you know you are not alone! I don't know what the solution is though, tbh.

Prepare some stock responses to help your confidence.

Thank you, I do appreciate the comments. I guess it just got to me last night as I'd smartened up and thought I looked quite nice for once.

Squid you're right! some men just feel they have the absolute right to openly critique your body and it can feel quite shit - whether you're conventionally attractive or not! I would have said something if my friend hadn't been there but I'm really not good with what I perceive as "social embarrassment." When in reality it's just standing up for yourself, isn't it?

petula how awful for that woman! I do the "seeing myself through a male gaze" every single day and I fucking hate it.

yes squid, given that women are on the planet for men's pleasure, many naturally feel that it's their duty to tell us when we're doing it right, and when we're doing it wrong

catkisser, i do it too though i try hard not to. the socialisation is very difficult to get rid of. i feel like i need deprogramming like they do for people who've been held hostage for years

Women's bodies do seem like public property - also women's clothing choices.
I've never seen an article about Muslim men wearing salwar kameez or dishdasha - only about women and whether they wear hijab.

I was talking to my girlfriend about Peter Kay seeming to have a fairly gentle sense of humour then aw a clip where he got a heckler to come right to the front below the stage and the first thing he did to put her down (I get that you're meant to put hecklers down) was to point out she had large breasts (you could feed a creche, was what he said). It's horrible.
That kind of attitude made me very self-conscious as a teenager.