Body image

[Blossum123]

Iv read lots on how men sterio type woman and see them as objects -I'm a size 16 in proportion but still a bigger girl.im all boobs and bum basicaly ! I don't have problems with men learing particularly although friends say I often attract admiring glances .
What I find horrible is other woman's reactions .iv been asked by work collegues if I would want to loose weight why don't i ? One even commented I would look better with a few pound off!a family member frequently comments on my boobs and would I go for a reduction ?!
It seems woman are much more hostile and negative about other woman's body's than men are . Yes some men are perving but aren't been outwardly horrible .
It's other woman that have made me feel a bit rubbish about my body at times - iv actually found the majority of men to be more respectful - iv certainly never been told I'm fat by a male collegue !

Monty do you mean that women shouldn't see themselves as rejected if they don't conform? I'm not sure I've quite understood.

For many women the risks of non-conformity are still too high

The risks of non-conformity are high, and also, I think for a lot of us, even if we want not to conform, we slip into familiar patterns. It's interesting that blossom says it's happening at work, so it's presumably people chatting 'socially' rather than having a burning desire to communicate. And it's seen as perfectly normal social chat for women to talk about weight.

I was just thinking, the other reason men don't do it so much may be because it's seen as slightly effeminate? I had an ex-boyfriend who had (and still has) slightly odd issues about weight. He was 6'3 and 11 stone and thought he was fat. And he got a lot of well-meaning but actually quite damaging comments from older men about how it was 'girly' to worry about your weight. Actually, the thing I really remember was his dad (whom I am very fond of) commenting repeatedly to me that it must be like talking to one of my girlfriends.

You're probably right LRD. They will often rib each other about being overweight in a way that women don't tend to, so discussing weight in a more concerned way is perhaps less acceptable

I struggle enormously with the weight conversations among women as you might imagine, and I'm sure I come across as very rude in some situations for not being able to participate

Rejected? Possibly - but also it's also that aspects of 'non-conformity' are seen as exactly that: deliberately setting oneself apart. However, surely we can agree that this is drastically less the case than several generations ago? We can talk all we want about narrow media representations, but spend half an hour people-watching in (the admittedly singular) London and you'll see a thousand willful and enthusiastic challenges to that representation.

No, I think there have always been thousands of willful and enthusiastic challenges - but it's in the nature of history we don't see it that way.

One woman who says fuck it, I refuse to wear a corset, is liable either to be seen as eccentric (if she's rich/upper class) or a bit peculiar and unmarriagable (if she's not). Several men and women gradually moving the fashion towards bras instead are, I suppose, non-conformist, but all that we end up with is a situation where we're no longer deforming our ribcages (good!), but some of us are getting cut open and having bags of silicon shoved in. So you have to wonder how genuinely 'non-conformist' some of these activities will be in the long run.

That is, for me, where the personal choice answers the general pattern. Many women are unable to leave the house without make-up. The reasons for that may range from a lack of confidence to outright vanity; society remains the same, but the individual response is different.

I think this really goes to the root of the problem. It's so tempting to look around and say 'look, women are making individual choices! They're breaking down all those repressive stereotypes!' And the thing is, this is only true such a tiny amount of the time. The rest of the time, it's an illusion of freedom IMO, and quickly becomes twisted into another way for society to make women feel bad.

It's like those arguments that burlesque is great because it features women who are not all slim, and many of whom are what mainstream fashion would call unattractively fat. And yet, I know plenty enough women who feel unhappy because they still don't live up to that ideal - they're not curvy enough, they still don't look quite as good as that woman up on stage, etc. It may start as a liberating experience for some women to see an ideal of beauty that's refreshingly different from the old one they couldn't live up to, but it ends up being another disappointment.

It still feels like freedom within prescribed boundaries to me.

Yes I agree with Petula too. It's encouraged and socially acceptable and occurs due to a feeling of lack of control in other areas.

And isn't Burlesque just another form of women performing for men's benefit?

Yep, that too.

I'm trying to think if there's a space where women can exist with a minimum of judgement and sexual critique.

Rather bizarrely - and I'm thinking aloud even more than usual here - I'm recalling naturist groups and even a few swingers clubs that I went to (a few years ago and more just to see!). There's something counter-intuitive about that second one, admittedly. But I recall that there were quite a few people that were in their later years and far from being conventionally attractive!!

I attend a slimming world group but only go in to get weighed and have stopped staying to class.
I made this decision when other members started to talk about "healthy competition" and the consultant seemed to think it was a good idea.

I lost ten stone ten/11 years ago ....regained 4 and in the last year have lost 2 and a half stone.

The first time I walked away from SW in Oct 2004 was when id got down to 11 stone from 21 and another member kept saying to me "you should be 10 and a half stone"

11 years ago I also had a female colleague say to me "its a pity you cant lose a bit more off your stomach You would look so good.

It was loose skin FFS Id lost ten stone,.

The diet industry badly needs regulation. Drug and alcohol counsellors have to be regulated. Why not slimming consultants.

Note the MALE poster coming in telling the OP to lose 3 or 4 stone even though he doesn't even know how tall she is.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2134175-Should-I-lose-weight-for-my-husband

And this is appalling.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2137575-FIL-and-DDs-shape

I've only be told I'm fat in an insulting way by men. So the opposite to you op. I don't have an issue with talking about my fat body but if it's an insult it's different.
Patriarchy affects all of us. Women internalise it so that's why they comment on you.

itsbetter me too The insults in the street have been from men over the years when I was bigger. In my adult years ive only had a street insult once from another woman.