What makes you a feminist?

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

And I mean, you, personally?

Tell me the reason(s) you call yourself a feminist. Certain things you do/believe in/think women or men should/ shouldn't be able to do?

I'm trying to work out if I am one or not.

OP- what makes you think you mightn't be a feminist?

Buffy Your post makes a shedload of sense (hence your username, I guess!) and has really made me think, so apologise if this comes out making no sense.

I have seen bald statements like "any woman who thinks they haven't experienced misogyny has been brainwashed" and it is that sort of thing that bothers me, I think, that if you don't feel the same way, it can't be for any intelligent reason, just that you have been brainwashed.

The leg shaving example is interesting. Would you continue to shave your legs if you knew nobody would ever see them or do you feel uncomfortable with hairy legs regardless? I don't bother doing it, but that is because I am the only one who is going to see them, and I am too idle to do anything with my appearance other than ensure I am clean and dressed appropriately for whatever I am doing. It is certainly not some sort of statement on my part.

Is it feminist to have (not necessarily consciously) stayed away from the pressure from magazines etc to act in a certain way, dress in a certain way etc?

This is a genuine question, as, when I think about it, I am surprised at how disconnected I am to other people's experiences and how ambivalent I am about feminism.

I think that to me feminism is not about, for example, shaving your legs or not, but about being aware of why women feel they have to do it. Making an informed choice. And saying that women have been brainwashed is a bit bald- but it is shorthand for the "buying in" to a misogynist culture that many women do.

Is it feminist to have (not necessarily consciously) stayed away from the pressure from magazines etc to act in a certain way, dress in a certain way etc?

Either: some feminists choose to dress in a gender neutral way, some choose to dress in a more typical way. Some choose to wear retro or Goth or vintage or urban fashion.
The issue is: your body your choice. It is not about replacing 'one' correct/high status way of looking with another.

It is similar with leg shaving. Your legs, your hair, your business.
You can be aware that there is societal pressure to do things, and that women should not be obliged to do something and still prefer to do that thing.

For example, parenting at home. In the past many women were pressurised into this and afforded low status. To this day societal expectations and the pay gap mean most SAHP are mothers.
Being aware of this does not mean you have to split childcare 50/50 or go back to work if your personal choice is to be a SAHM.
Feminism is about respecting that choice, and recognising that historically such an important role was undervalued.

You don't have to be an 'earth mother' or a 'career woman' to be a feminist... these are in themselves harmful stereotypes.

...for example I collect a lot of retro items (clothing- which I wear, cookbooks and so forth).
I am perfectly aware that in the past these things signified a very patriarchal society.
They are also deeply fascinating and pleasing to me from the standpoint of their craft, fabric and aesthetics.
There is nothing more frustrating to a vintager (many of whom came to it through years of study of history/politics and are thus aware of the issues) than people seeing a Mary Quant dress or a New Look skirt and assuming we want to travel back in time!

squizita Explaining it as you have done makes a lot of sense and originally what I thought feminism was about.

It may seem obvious but I think what has put me off is that I have seen the attitude that you MUST find x, y or z offensive, for example, if you are a feminist, and that seems to be the polar opposite of what feminism is. I suppose, like everything else, there are people with "stronger" views than others.

I have lurked on here for ages, and none of the threads I have read previously have made as much sense as this one!

I'm a feminist because people are disgusted by Breast feeding but not by page 3.

I'm a feminist ally because I want my daughters to have the same options and opportunities as their brother. I taught him something at the weekend, that women get judged for everything. He didn't believe me until his mother and sisters confirmed it. He's a bright young man, but hadn't really given it much thought.

It's really simple. Look up the dictionary definition. Feminism means believing in equality between men and women.

Show me the person - man or woman - who is prepared to stand up and say they don't.

Ergo - any half sentient being (male or female) is a feminist..

Yes fir me the term 'brainwash' is very much about the fact that some things are so ingrained in our culture that we don't even realise that we have been influenced by our culture if that makes sense.

My big 'brainwashing' annoyance is the idea that mothers have to stay at home with their children because it's so much better for them and if they don't (and coyjd afford it financially) the they are bad mums. And the origin if that annoyance is that, coming from a country where it's normal for new mothers to go back to work and being a SAHP is more unusual, it has put me in that strange situation where I feel bad if I work and bad if I don't .
It would be do much better if things were really left to the decision if the woman and she could take her decision wo feeling guilty either way.

Someone also mentioned not feeling misoginists attitude but also not being a mum my experience is that, for whatever reason, in the uk, becoming a mum moves women down the 'hierarchy' to a place where their choices are more limited and it's ok for the man to start behaving sppaulingly even when there was real equality between them before.

Buffy Yes, the statement about being brainwashed stuck in my mind because I was actually quite insulted by it (even though I wasn't actively posting on that thread). I have also seen the term "handmaiden" (had to look that one up!!)

From your Facebook example , I have experienced misogyny. I have also seen the type of jokes about women only having men instead of vibrators because vibrators can't mow the lawn. So I tend to see them, think "meh" and move on. Because isn't that a kind of equality in itself? Or am I being spectacularly naïve?

Lumiere I think that might have been me. I don't have, and have never wanted to have, children. Perhaps that is a reason why I am more detached from it. I have friends who have found that people patronise them etc when my friends have become mothers.

Buffy x-posted! I am in the same position that you started from. I will have a look at your link (I promise not to roll my eyes! ) as I am genuinely interested in other people's point of view.

judged for deciding that actually they'd rather not have children thanks very much.

Ah - now this I have experienced, but it has generally come from other women.

Sorry - think I have derailed the thread a little....

"judged for deciding that actually they'd rather not have children thanks very much.

Ah - now this I have experienced, but it has generally come from other women."

Women can be anti feminist too! Just because a woman does something or makes a choice that doesn't make it a feminist thing or choice.

Abbey (and your choice of name makes me think you probably espouse a lot of feminist views ) - how about the diet coke ad as an example similar to the vibrator joke? The TV viewer could look at that and say "hey look, men get treated as sexist objects by advertising too, so it's a level playing field..." Or they could look at it and say "well, superficially it looks as though... " then add, "but hang on a minute, look at the numbers here. How many ads are there treating women like sex objects for every one that treats men that way? Who is making these ads - are they female directors, employed by female-run ad agencies? Or are they coming out of a male-dominated industry as a clever piece of tokenism so that if someone raises the issue of sexual objectification, they can point to that one (or two, if you include the maltesers/chippendales advert) example and say 'hey, our industry treats men the same so it can't be a gendered issue'."

Likewise the vibrator joke - it's interesting to think about the spectrum of "humour" on which it lies. Is it the direct equivalent of, say, "Why do women marry in white? Because all domestic appliances come in white." (How onerous is an hour mowing the lawn every other weekend compared to coming home after a full day at work every day to find you have to do 60, 70% of the housework to your husbands 40, 30% - and most surveys suggest that housework is split unequally even when both partners work full time). And is there a male equivalent to the "two black eyes" joke (sic - I was so loathe to type the word joke in connection with that).

Perhaps it's just the label that makes me uncomfortable. I grew up around strong women, my DM and DF have an equal partnership, I always took it for granted. Even the TV I grew up watching were positive and, thinking about it, passed the Bechel (sp?) test, even in the 70s/80s.

And I have only lived with one partner, who did cooking, housework etc so there were not the issues there.

Lurcio And I find ads like the yogurt one (the one where the woman says about rich, dark, thick while the bloke is on the screen a bit but perhaps that is because it smacks of tokenism and no one bats an eyelid when it is women depicted in that way - I hadn't thought of it that way.

Maybe that's the brainwashing element!

I have been tempted to post on FWR threads before but was slightly frightened to in case I got flamed!

Ok - my name is AbbeyBartlet and I MIGHT be a feminist!

Buffy you are so damned Reasonable