Why do we need men

[AICM]

Not what you’re thinking!

I mean why do we need men to make sexist comments when so many women seem to do such a good job on their behalf?

I teach in a Primary School were the staff are 90% female. Here is a flavour of just some of the many comments I’ve heard recently:

When a woman applied to be our new caretaker “We need a man to fix things surely?”

When discussing a young female member of staff the word “slut” is used a lot.

When a man bought a new Ford Ka “That’s girl’s car!”

Passing endless negative comments about other woman’s weight and appearance.

Referring to the office staff as “the girls in the office”.

“One of the male teachers should run the football team. It’s man’s job.”

“I’d hate to work for a female head. Female bosses are always bitches.”

“Why would a man want to teach the little ones? They’d never cope!” (At our school a man does the teach little ones and he’s brilliant)

When a male TA (teaching assistant) was appointed the other TAs were angry because they didn’t a want a man in the resource room when they were working in there.

And the best one, remember this is coming from a teacher, “Girls aren’t good at maths.”

Just about the only people who are not sexist are the men!

I do challenge these comments when I hear them but it’s so awful that they make them in the first place.

When discussing a young female member of staff the word “slut” is used a lot.

I have been thinking about this re using the word "bossy" women should be banned from using the word slag or slut to describe other women as straight away you are saying a women should behave in a male proscribed way.

"women should be banned from using the word slag or slut"

Women should be banned, or people?

Well, I won't keep hammering at it. But I think that plenty of women in our society find it pleasant enough that they're full supporters and participants, without being in any way deluded or forced to do so, and if we want to change society, we have to persuade them to change their minds. You could take away male violence (ah, if only) and there would be a lot of sexism left, with no need for violence to maintain it.

Actually I missed something. I said "very few women will condone rape or murder" but for these people at the school, I can just hear them saying "Well, she was asking for it, wasn't she". They're in charge of bringing up young people. It makes you shudder.

And that word "responsible"--when an adult speaks, I give them credit or blame for what they've said, and I don't look for ways to believe that they didn't really mean it. Isn't that the way everyone should treat everyone? So if someone talks a sexist line, they're doing it because they're a sexist, and they, not the hypothetical rapist around the corner, take the responsibility for it.

in the future women will be able to impregnate themselves telepathically or better still men being able to have the babies too i think its time evolution had another advancement
men and women are equal though blah blah blah
men do what women do and women do what men do its 2014 ffs grow up YABU OP
your also sexist (yes women can be too and yes men have feelings like women do!)

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure

I meant women in the context of an female workplace.

Obviously people in general shouldn't use it as a negative slur

There are pamphlets arguing against women get the vote, which say that 99% of women agree with them. I am sure it wasn't that high a percentage of women, but it probably was the case that most women thought they should not be able to vote. I think about this whenever the current situations seems unchangeable.

Also you might find it useful to read Right Wing Women, which you can download for free here. It explains why women say and do anti feminist things.

radfem.org/dworkin/

Thanks calmet. I've been recommended that before and still haven't read it. Not sure which Dworkin book to start on tbh (haven't read anything by her but want to).

And yy to when women got the vote. The majority of women were against it (or ambivalent) at the time. Yet now it is a true minority of women who don't think they should have the vote. Attitudes and behaviour changed after that freedom was granted.

"You could take away male violence (ah, if only) and there would be a lot of sexism left, with no need for violence to maintain it." Yes I think you are right if tomorrow male violence was eradicate then that would be the case. However, I don't think that the patriarchy is going to disappear in a puff of smoke when all men see the errors of their ways. I think it will be a gradual change and as such people's mindsets will change gradually. What equality looks like will change too.

'The women's behaviour described in the OP are not because they are the oppressors it is because they are oppressed. And punishments are not administered as much by women as men. Women aren't raping other women. Women aren't murdering other women. Women aren't harassing other women in the street.'

You believe its because they are oppressed...do they? How do you know that isn't just what they actually think and feel?

Punishments for what? Other women are the worst for bullying other women for their decisions. I wouldn't consider rape a 'punishment' for anything either, that isn't why its done.

Women do murder other women, so thats incorrect for a start.

Again is seems you now want to lay the blame of a large amount of women's behaviour, thoughts and character at the door of 'men'.

'When discussing a young female member of staff the word “slut” is used a lot.'

Women are always calling other women sluts and being bitchy and nasty about them, espcially if such women are younger and better looking than they are.

You see the inane bitchiness on Mumsnet from older women to younger women all the time, they hate being told or debating with younger women and never fail to mention how they are older thus have much more experience of whatever the subject is than the younger woman (this of course is a logical fallacy as age doesn't correlate to someone having experience in anything at all).

Women are threatened by other women when they feel have some sort of advantage over them.

I suppose they are forced to behave and think like this by men now, and they have natural feelings of envy and jealousy about other women because of men.

Utterly ridiculous.

I agree Tei, people are responsible for their own words. If women are coming out with such outright sexism, it would always be ok to challenge them on it. Women can be as misogynistic as the next man, and, if we;re feeling brave we should be calling them out on it in the same way as we should be calling men out.

It's interesting to look at the reasons why women internalise misogyny though, and I agree with PP that it must be because it creates a sense of being 'in' with the oppressor. A false sense of security. A watered down version of female MRA handmaidens, perhaps?

CaptChaos many women are total and complete man pleasers and I personally think this is them as people and not conditioning, as plenty of women are not willing to pander and bend to everything a man wants all the time.

It gives them power and status among men groups for women to pander to them (Im not even talking about sexually either here), I witnessed a lot of this when I was a teenager+.

"CaptChaos many women are total and complete man pleasers and I personally think this is them as people and not conditioning"

So is this behaviour described in the OP intended to please men as a class?

And yet it has nothing to do with conditioning as to what might please men as a class?

Ok...

No, its designed to please whatever man is in the vicinity of them at the moment. I doubt they even think of men as a 'class'.

In order to try and please "whichever man is in the vicinity" (which implies a man not necessarily known to them) then an assumption about what might please a generic man will need to be made.

That's what I meant by "men as a class". HTH.

Bill, of course it is to do with conditioning, it is also to do with self protection. If a woman can identify with the perceived ideas of the surrounding men, then she might feel like she is protecting herself from them, in an 'I'm one of you now!' way. It also helps to 'other' other women. It's not a pleasant tactic, but it must be a successful one when it comes to self preservation.

There should be a balance of women and men. Im not sure what your suggesting? I have wonderful men around me, and I wish there were more women who has the same compassion as them.

Though this seems to continue even in the absence of men, I have known women who have worked in all female workplaces like nurseries/hairdressers and the bitching/bullying gossiping can be horrible. This is what I find odd in that women will use slut shaming.

Similarly all men workplaces can mean more 'banter' misogynistic crap.