Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

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I have a few friends who, because their DHs are high (6 figure) earners, are able to be SAHMs, and have no intention of ever returning to work. These women are all at least degree educated and previously had successful careers.

I just wonder, in such a situation, how a long term SAHM encourages her DD to realise her academic/career potential, if the example she sets is that her education is only a short term requirement until she meets a high earning man?

I'm not trying to start a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. My own mother is university educated, and has always worked in some capacity, successfully managing her own businesses with being the main carer, and encouraged me to be financially independent.

Personally, I feel I have invested too many years, and too much money, in my education and career to give it up forever after only 10-15 years. I like to think I am setting a good example to my DD that career and family are not mutually exclusive.

So how does a long term SAHM reconcile this? Am I thinking too simplistically?

maggie - it is not a pointless question though. It caused major rifts between my mother and I when I was in my teens as I couldn't reconcile her ambitions for me (admittedly she was pushy on them) with her life story of marriage and kids very early on and no jobs after that.

So actually she did need to justify her sahm - ness to her stroppy, feisty teenage daughter and we argued a lot.

We cannot be the only ones to have experienced this.

Was she not feisty too then pomme?

She is with a glass of wine inside her bit otherwise no, she is overly meek IMHO. Why?

It was mentioned upthread but not expanded on a great deal - but for all those men who have a wife at home 'allowing and enabling the husband's career to advance and flourish', what do those men think of the mothers that they work alongside?

From experience, I know that I am instantly earmarked as less committed and less career-centric than these men because I have family life and children to juggle. Due to being in the same position as me, my husband understands and realises these things, so affords all his staff the understanding and workarounds where appropriate/necessary; would he have been the same sort of manager with a wife and sahm to pick up the home side of things? I suspect not.

(In fact, I have just had that very discussion with him prior to pressing 'post' and he agrees. He said he would have a very different view if he hadn't had to be an equal parent/housework/ etc etc- he sees the difference in his fellow managers who have supportive wives 'at home').

Yes, absolutely pomme, to the extent that my mother consistently sabotaged or tried to sabotage any relationship I had, lest I, heaven forbid, had kids. She was not feisty, she was a controlling bully, or someone desperate to stop her dd making the same 'mistakes' she had, depending how you look at it. She was quite unhinged.

For me,it's demonstrating that women donr need to be dependent housewife
Didnt want to enact patriarchy it's not a given that woman Gives up work and daddy work
And yes if mother doesn't work,and is housewife it does reinforce antiquated roles

I was just thinking that any feisty questions about my life and career choices from one of my extremely feisty DDs would get a feisty response, that's all. My life, my decisions.

On the other hand, I get quite a bit of feistiness if they ever think I am trying to direct their choices, which is rare. I have always tried hard to let them see the range of choices they have though. DS too.

I can't remember ever questioning my mother's almost two decades of SAHMing either, although it certainly didn't appeal to me as an option at all. Not surprising we were polar opposites born in very different eras.

I'm struggling to understand Mothers and Daughters questioning each others decisions I suppose (as you can probably tell).

I never questioned my own mother's choice to stay home with us. She had a degree and worked before having us.

Given that so many women now don't start having children till their 30s, especially the daughters in the situation described by the original post, it doesn't take a lot of foresight to realise that you have a good 10 to 15 years to fill up before becoming a mum. Even if a girl's only ambition is to become a SAHM, she needs something interesting to do until then. And frankly, at 18 I couldn't imagine being a mother, SAHM or otherwise. I wanted to get out and do things. And I did.

YY scarlet having never lived what it actually means to be equal parent with equal responsibilities, it's them easy for men to actually realise what it entails. And to then assume that women with young children will automatically be less reliable because you know .., they are tied up with children issues.

Which actually means that we need to teach both our daughters and sons about equality. and will forget quickly crap from ds who thought it was normal for women to do all the he and childcare and other crap like this, all told by his 'friends' at school

Re defending your choices, I've actually had that from ds1 but in a different way. More of 'but why aren't you at home doing all the HW whilst daddy goes to work? Do you really have to work?'
Cue to defend the idea that 1- yes it's ok for women to work and 2- no it's not ok for men to be sat on the sofa watching football whilst their wife is cooking dinner/looking after the kids etc (which apparently is the best thing that can happen to a man )

I don't talk about being a parent in work,I compartmentalise.its not relevant
Best advice I was given was when you need to leave to collect kids,just go.no fraught explanation
Don't do the convoluted explanation of your domestic arrangements.men don't

I agree with that SM but I do share cat pictures with my colleagues

Seriously if both parents shared care and work then things would be more balanced within society.
The long working hours culture would disappear - the "wife" at home expectation perpetuates it.

Further to not doing 'fraught explanation' for family situations, I have always provided a solution immediately rather than asking for one.

For e.g. years back when youngest had chicken pox, myself and husband went to our workplaces and put the suggestion to our respective line managers of what we had decided would happen - he would go in work 3 hours earlier in morning and finish at 12, I would start at half 12 and work through into the evening.
By doing that, we were both able to provide wrap around care for the short period required without either of us appearing to management to be 'problems'.

YY to teaching our children about equality. But it is an uphill struggle. In the supermarket today, picture of little boy at a table, holding his cutlery standing to attention, text, quick, hurry up, or similar. Further round the store, picture of little girl, pinny on browsing her baking book, spoon in hand and baking trays next to her.

Not my normal supermarket and I won't go back but this is a big chain.

Teaching equality is false construct,equality is demonstrated in behaviour,values
One can demonstrate not being dependent,by working and own money,job
Some people get hung up on teaching equality,when it's easier to enact equality

Totally agree that equality is not taught but lived
it means my DH has enjoyed time with our DC as much as I have and that has been a great experience for our DC

Couldn't agree more about teaching/demonstrating Scottishmummy which is why I demonstrate to my children that I love them above anything by being there to pick them up from school every day.

Except that ds1 has the perfect picture of equality in front of him at home! Both of us work, both of us are involved in parenting, hw etc... Actually DH probably has been doing more than me in the last year!

I do some of the DIY, we decorate together. ds1 sees us doing that and still comes up with gems such as
'But mummy you aren't good at DIY' when I was finishing assembling an ikea desk. 'Errr really? Who has built the desk then?'. 'Oh yes you have but you aren't as good as daddy'

So yes it has to lived but sometimes it also has to be pointed out very clearly
Especially as anything I say is just met by a 'Yes but mummy what you do is always weir and different. It's not how things are done normally. Normal is the wife doing all the hw

All said very seriously.

Agreed vestandknickers. My children feel lucky to have had me at home when they came home from school.

vest yes my DC had a parent to pick them up everyday - sometimes me ,sometimes DP- because children often ( not always) have 2 parents.

DaVinci my Dc are the way more PC - they know DP is better at cleaning ( true) and I am better at everything

Well it is When because if you give up everything to be there there has to be some sort of payback - doesn't there ??
Unless both parents are actively involved and care for their children equally and enable each other to have both equality in caring and working roles.
Whhhoa Nelly- they don't like that

Unfortunately not Red, not satire at all.

It's a shame because I was hoping that things were moving towards how it is up to both parents to demonstrate and practice equal work/home life responsibility. How a woman 'choosing to stay at home to allow her husband to be successful in his career' can be counter productive to increasing equality and fairer working conditions for women, thus allowing us all to truly have a 'choice' as the playing field could be levelled more between the sexes.

Alas, it seems like the only answer is "I prove I love my kids because I pick them up from school every day".
There is actually no rational answer to that mind set imo.

I've only read the first few pages of this thread. Children learn many lessons from their parents - some choose the same path, some choose a radically different one, some chooose parts that they enjoyed.

My mother left school at 14, was married at 15, first child at 16. She had 7 children, a hard life. I was number 7, the first in my family to go to university (my nearest brother and I the first to finish school), the first to speak a foreign language, to travel outside my home country, you get the picture. I wanted to stay at home with my children, but I wanted to work, travel, discover life first. My mother gave me a love of knowledge, and a love of discovery. That was a great gift.

I travelled, I worked, I discovered things. I volunteered with children's groups, I volunteered as a Special Constable. I worked in low-paid jobs and high-paid jobs. I had relationships which didn't work out and figured out what sort of relationship I would like, and eventually found that.

Right now I am not working, right now I am a SAHP. My partner really does 50% of the childcare, and it's great, it's one of the attitudes I looked for in a potential partner.

I am not defined by my choice of lifestyle, just as I was not defined by my job earlier. I worked before, I'll probably work again when my child is older. I have found other women much more judgmental about my choice to stay at home with my child than I have found men to be. I thought feminism was about choice? Supporting a woman's right to make choices for her life? Not tearing apart other people because they have made different choices than you yourself have made?

Jo, whilst I agree wholeheartedly with most of your post, one thing you mentioned did stand out for me - you mentioned that it was mostly women, not men, who were judgemental about you choosing to stay at home.

As a working mother, judgements re my choice to work have come primarily from men (usually those whose wives chose to stay at home), as well as women (who have chosen to stay at home).

I would argue that far more judgment is still made on those women who choose to (not need to) return to work with young children (pre school age), than those who stay at home.