Just need to vent - sexism at work

[MagicalHamSandwich]

So I'm an IT consultant and have just started a new project. The project manager is also a consultant but works at a different firm. He's also arguably the nastiest chauvinist I've ever had to work with. And I'm saying this as a woman employed in the tech industry.

Since I got there two weeks ago I've heard him ...

• Make porn jokes at lunch multiple times
• Make masturbation jokes directed at one particular member of the team (male), who was visibly uncomfortable with it
• Rate any passing woman's looks out of ten
• Greet me with 'hello, cupcake' in the morning
• Rate female team members out of ten
• Rate my wardrobe
• ...

My management won't intervene even though they're subjected to the same BS. They're worried about the contract because we're behind schedule. This is most certainly not company policy (my former boss was absolutely brilliant in this regard).

So today another woman on the team complains about the working climate - referring to irredeemable arse, of course. He decides this refers to my team and orders our team lead to tell all of us to be more polite

Please help me not to murder him. Asking for a reassignment is not an option. I refuse to leave an intriguing project because of that guy!

How long is the project?

I think what I'd do is to write down each and every comment, and then once when you leave, if it is possible to do so, put a fairly lengthy and detailed complaint in to his manager. However - it may lose you any future references/testimonials.

I am documenting his behaviour - as is the other woman on the team. I'm also considering asking my former manager for a meeting to pick his brain on the matter. He and I have been there and he was great in a similar situation.

The thing is: he just makes me feel so helplessly angry that I want to burst into tears with frustration ... which is obviously not something I can afford in this situation.

... oh, and I'm there for at least 14 months. Hoping to get rid of complete fucker long before I roll off.

Christ. I work in IT consultancy as well and that is worse than anything I've ever come across (admittedly my work is public sector, which may make a difference).

I'm just trying to get a picture here. Are you both working on a customer site, or is one of you working in the other one's office? Are you a permanent employee of a consultancy, or a contractor? Does the PM outrank you? He sounds rather senior if he can direct complaints to a team lead. What did the team lead say - are they in a stronger position to challenge him? Who is the other person who complained, does she work for the firm? Her complaint has been fobbed off and needs to be escalated.

What do you think would happen if you simply wrote to him or asked him verbally to stop doing all the things you mention in your first post?

Don't mean to scare you tribpot but my client is quasi-public sector, too.

Yes, PM outranks both myself and the team lead for my firm (himself senior management) - he reports directly to the client side programme manager and to the steering comittee. Other complainant reports directly to him - at least technically. For obvious reasons she prefers to deal with everyone else first, if it can be resolved that way. And yes, we're all based at a client site - unfortunately all in the same open plan office.

Team lead won't do anything about it. He's much too worried about the fact that we're behind schedule and other contractual issues. His advice is to 'grow a thick skin around that guy'. Arguably it doesn't help that he believes I was forced on him because I was my former boss's pet (I wasn't - I just happen to be good at what I do and was lucky enough to work for someone who appreciated that).

My employer is normally great about this kind of stuff. We're huge on a global scale and the fact that we have strictly enforced policies on pretty much everything is actually what has up to now allowed me to live a relatively peaceful life as a woman in this industry.

Right so you're at Client A. You and the team leader work for Company B and the team lead is also your senior consultant on site. Team lead reports to the PM, who works for Company C.

Other complainant works for - who? Why does she want to deal with everyone else when the problem is the PM? Are other people acting up in response to his lousy behaviour? Is she hoping some kind of general instruction to behave will translate into an improvement in his behaviour? Not very likely.

Can you go over the team lead's head inside your own firm and ask his boss to intervene? At this rate your own company is going to have an HR issue on its hands.

Alternatively, is anyone from Client A likely to be directly affected by his behaviour? His firm should want him off site before he pisses off the wrong person (I nearly had someone removed from site last year whose only 'crime' was shouting 'FUCKING INTERNET EXPLORER 6' when asked to make his beautiful screens compatible with that particular browser (NB he shouted this repeatedly, it wasn't a one-off). I knew that we had people in the office who would be deeply unappreciative of that sort of thing. You've also got the option of going to the programme manager he works for.

The likelihood is that if you make waves about this, esp with an unsupportive boss, one way or another there is going to be a price to pay. But I don't think you're going to make it through 14 months of this ass-hat anyway.

Keep documenting - and at minimum start making noise inside your own firm. Even if it's informal. You don't want it to look like you invented a problem with this guy at the point where he decides to have you shoved out because he knows you're a 'troublemaker' from his perspective.

Ok so he can't sack you then? Who can sack you in all this? It's not too clear.

If you for example, looked at your watch every time he made one of these comments, opened your notebook/diary, and noted down every word, who was in the room etc etc; and responded to his enquiry of what you are doing as 'I have been advised to record every instance of sexism in the workplace' and say no more - who would be able to get rid of you?

Other complainant works for A, the client. But she reports to PM within the framework of the project organisation.

And, no, she doesn't make a fuss about PM's behaviour to everyone else. She approaches everyone else about project related questions that PM is supposed to deal with - because she understandably has no particular inclination to spend more time than absolutely necessary in PM's company. This is only an issue insofar as the various managers at the various firms like to pass the blame for delayed deliverables to one another. Not my problem at all, though it's mildly amusing.

My plan for the time being is to ...
a) Keep a record of PM's antics
b) Do a good job. It'll be easier to complain once team lead realises he didn't simply inherit fellow manager's office crush.
c) Test the waters with not-actually-office-crush-we-just-happen-to-work-well-together, see what his take on the situation is
d) Plan next steps from there

And, yes, I'm most definitely hell-bent on working out my mandate there. I'd rather drop dead than let a misogynistic arsehole force me out of a staffing I worked bloody hard to get. It's not fair and he's not getting away with it - even if it costs me my annual bonus in therapy.

Technically, none of them can sack me, funky. In practice, my direct superior and our team lead can probably make it happen - not bloody likely, so far I'm lined up for promotion.

PM can most definitely not sack me. Technically, he can't even get me off the team. In practice, he probably could. Sadly/luckily he's much too delighted to 'have a pretty face on the team'. He doesn't take me seriously enough to try.

I would draw up a list of the evidence, and complain to the PM's manager in Company C, copying in my own management in Company B. I would expect both companies to have diversity policies, and I would expect him to be in breach of those. I do complain about stuff like this - haven't had anything as bad as this, but I've certainly complained about sexist jokes being circulated, and I don't care if it makes me look like a humourless misery or if I piss people off. I also point out the unthinking, unintentional sexism, like the signs on the datacentre doors warning about "men working behind doors and raising floor tiles" (because it doesn't count when I do it), and emails starting, "Gentlemen." I do usually get an apology, and they changed the signs.

But your plan for the time being looks good, too. I like the idea of talking it through with former manager.

It's bloody depressing though (and my original typo of "IT's" also fits there.) It's no wonder there aren't more women in tech when we have to put up with this sort of crap all the time. I work with local schools to encourage more girls to consider careers in IT, but part of me thinks, I'm not doing you any favours by encouraging this.

I can relate to that sentiment, EBearhug, I experience it every time a younger woman asks me about IT as a degree option.

I absolutely do believe it will get easier, has already got easier, though. Each time one of us performs well, the next woman working for the same boss won't be faced with quite the same amount of prejudice. Every one of us who makes partner makes women a somewhat more familiar sight in high calibre meetings. Every female graduate joining our ranks contributes to the perception that this is indeed the expected outcome.

Unfortunately it's a long way to normal and failure is not really an option in the meantime. I'll know we've made it when I can suck at my job and get away with it the way many male co-workers do.

Unfortunately, though, we have to do more than perform well. Although there certainly is a belief in IT that women just aren't as good as men at it, there's also an expectation that - as we are vastly outnumbered - we will 'join in' and not make waves about stuff we consider to be sexist or offensive. Because of course, these are only "harmless jokes and banter between colleagues".

Yes, seniority will help but it does need to be challenged - repeatedly - at the grass roots level as well. If your team lead were female, MagicalHam, she would have the same political issues about challenging it as the male one does, i.e. the project is running late and no-one wants to hear about an HR issue from an external contractor.

EBearHug - I know what you mean. Whilst women are encouraged into IT at a young age, they are effectively discouraged back out of it once working in it, which makes it look like they are self-selecting into other careers. We can only make progress by attacking this on a number of fronts, and weight of numbers is one of those. Things are definitely improving and we can hope that by the time the children you're talking to come into the industry things will have improved further.

I'll know we've made it when I can suck at my job and get away with it the way many male co-workers do.

Oh yes. Though I expect I will have retired by then (currently early 40s.)

I am apparently not allowed to point out that I'm way ahead of my direct colleagues in certain ways, because it will make them look bad. (Not quite sure how this is my problem rather than theirs.) God alone knows what miracles I am meant to perform to get marked above expectations in a review. I will be escalating if I don't get a reasonable response from my manager later this week, but I bet male colleagues who have been promoted haven't had to fight so hard for it.

I should add that my company is actually very good, it's just the department which is abysmal, and it's not just because of sexism, and I found out last week there are things going on in higher ranks to turn things round, which is why I'm staying here for now. That, and because I am not going to be beaten by a load of incompetent men. It will get better for those who follow on and I am determined to be part of improving it - but it does get tiring sometimes.

I was about to apologise for having a rant and then I thought no, it is not something to be sorry for, feeling strongly about it!

Could you get the male colleague who was on the receiving end of the masturbation jokes to log incidents and complain as well? Arse's superiors either are unaware of his behaviour or tolerate it. An extra voice can't hurt in the first case, and a male voice might help a lot in the second.

I really sympathise with your situation and unfortunately it is one which is all too common. the issue I see here is that your PM is aware that he can almost do or say whatever he likes, because the women on the team are unable or unwilling to make a fuss.

I really hate to say this, because it sounds sexist on its own, but you need some male members of the team on your side. Many of them are probably deeply embarrassed by his behaviour and may well be willing to have a word with him. just take him aside and point out he could make himself the target of a tribunal if he isn't more careful. is there anyone you would trust to help you?

Well, I spoke to team lead today, in a rather informal way. Apparently the powers that be are testing the waters and hoping to have arse replaced. Seems even the men are complaining within my organisation. And so are the client's employees, men and women.

Issue seems to be that programme lead is not sure how to weigh up the respective risks of a) changing horses mid race and b) project running into trouble due to arse being both an arse and not particularly good at his job.

Hearing a member of my client account leadership (pretty senior around here) refer to PM as 'an irredeemable arsehole' made my day, though.

This is good news. I would have thought if the client's employees are complaining the programme lead will have to take it seriously (of course, the fact men are complaining doesn't hurt either ).

The only saving grace is that the arse is bad at his job. You'd have a much tougher battle if he was perceived to be the hero of the hour.

This sounds like an opportunity for your own company to offer up a decent project manager, esp if they can find one with a good grounding in the project to prevent the whole knowledge transfer problem. Ker-ching!

That sounds quite positive. Knowing it's not just you is a help on itself, I find.

I can utterly sympathise, I am in IT and have some similar problems in my permanent job, however when I brought it up the HR lady suggested maybe I was too sensitive and used to a different environment having moved north from London!!! At least they seem to be considering the behaviour unacceptable. Good luck with it, hope it gets sorted, I find it amazing that this still happens so much within certain fields!

Agree with ebearhug, I would complain to the arse's manager (in his employing organisation) with some choice examples, and copy in your manager. If these are reasonably big companies with HR and everyone has evidence it seems far likelier that he will be dealt with than any negative impact on you.

Well, he's been sacked!

Okay, since he's a contractor, he hasn't technically been sacked.
However, his mandate was teriminated effective immediately last week. Turns out the client was in a bit of a pickle over the matter and eventually management at [some department involved] decided they simply couldn't risk sitting on the information about his behaviour they were privy to. They quite rightly concluded they'd get into a hell of a lot of trouble if there was a complaint and it was found they had been aware of this for months and done nothing. So HOD and his boss took it upon themselves to file a formal complaint regarding the treatment of their female staff. He was let go the following day.

Downside for me personally: as I happened to be the only woman at the office when he was told, I had the 'privilege' of being dragged into a phone room by him the second he found out and confronted about why I was accusing him. When I told him I was not even aware of what he was talking about, he then attempted to pressure me into exonerating him in writing - which I promptly refused to do.

That having been said: it was fucking terrifying! I seriously hope this has been the first and last time I've ever been (wo)manhandled into a cramped space by an emotionally agitated certified misogynist twice my own weight.

Official communication on the matter is appalling: it essentially suggests the guy's done a great job (he hasn't) but was accused (as though that happened for no reason) by a few individuals within the team (i.e. the women, who everyone knows don't belong in IT) hence forcing management's hand. Not really what happened.

I've lost all faith in my direct superior who (after having witnessed a great number of the incidents in question) actually called me to ask what exactly about umbags behaviour had been inappropriate. I've also gained a lot of respect for our team lead, who handled the situation like a pro when I called him about it after being dragged out by PM.

I'm still shaken, so are many of the others. But he's gone. He didn't get away with what he did and that has got to be a good thing!

God. What a truly depressing story for all women working in IT.

Obviously it's great that he's gone, but that is about the only positive part of the story.

The company acted because they knew they'd get in more trouble if it came out later they'd turned a blind eye (which was clearly the preference).

The public message has been 'hysterical wimmin forced our hand and we had to let a good man go'. (Even though I thought some of the men had complained about his behaviour as well).

And you've been assaulted and threatened - for which I assume there will be no comeback on him at all. Would you consider making a complaint about this? Were there witnesses to what happened?

Would you also consider making a complaint about your direct supervisor's behaviour? (I've lost track of who that is - your team lead is the other person from your own consultancy, who you initially felt had dismissed you as his predecessor's pet?)

I appreciate that you feel utter relief that the tosser has gone, but I fear this is not yet the end of the matter, esp given the appalling attitudes you've been exposed to. How sad and unnecessary this whole episode has been.

Oh great news! I am responsible for contracting managed services and consultants and was going to advise you to maybe speak to the client. Such behaviour from a contractor on our premises would be extremely frowned upon and I would expect a request to replace him. But hurrah anyway. What a cock.

Sorry should have read the rest of your post. Sorry you have had to put up with this unacceptable shit!

It's a victory, but a hollow one.

I *do" intend to discuss the matter of my being dragged into the phone room with my management on Monday (all happened yesterday when none of them were in). This would obviously have been a very intimidating situation for any employee - even without the aggravating factors of sex, physical size, seniority and established history of misogynistic behaviour involved, and I absolutely think that my company ought to at least remind the client that this is not how we expect our staff to be treated on their premises.

Don't think anything can be done about management's communication. They had apparently been looking for a reason to get rid of the guy for weeks and got served one on a silver platter when the other department complained. Which allows our programme lead to pretend as though he did not hire an utterly incompetent tosser for a job where the stakes are miles high. Good for him!

On the upside: the women on the client team are great! One of them organised an impromptu emotional support get-together for all of us after learning how the sacking had gone down, and what had happened to me in the process.

Just hoping the generally miserable office climate is going to improve with scumbag's departure.