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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Minister for Sport's opinion about women's sports.. gah

88 replies

benid · 21/02/2014 13:58

blogs.channel4.com/cathy-newman-blog/sports-minister-tells-women-cheerleading/461

OP posts:
BranchingOut · 22/02/2014 16:27

Oh dear...

I did wince when I briefly switched on the women's half-pipe from Sochi and heard two male commentators commenting on one of the athlete's style:

'...yes, I probably shouldn't say this but she rides like a girl. She has a very feminine, elegant look to her style...'

Hmm
LauraBridges · 22/02/2014 16:47

They are there to arouse men. That is not sport in my book. well I suppose it is a kind of sport,... but not the sort we mean. My daughter last year was chosen to play a sport for England. They were on Sky Sports last week for the first time, first time in 12 months, because they are a women's sport not a men's sport.

MajorGrinch · 22/02/2014 17:06

we should be encouraging and supportive of all women who participate in any sport of their choosing, not degrading them by suggesting their sport is only there to benefit men.

This sums it up for me. If you want to play football or rugby, get out there & do it, but don't dismiss someone else's choice of sport just because it doesn't appeal to you or you believe it's totally for the benefit of men. Hmm

As an aside, does anyone happen to know the composition of the spectators at a cheerleading tournament? I'm willing to bet that most of the men in the audience are related to or involved with those participating and that it's probably not a drooling mass of mac wearing pervs as some would suggest....

LauraBridges · 22/02/2014 18:43

For goodness sake of course they are there to arouse men. That is entirely what it's about. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. It's like pole dancing and stripping. Of course they can do it if they want but them do it with their eyes open. I am not saying there is anything wrong with pleasing men - it's how most women eat in marriages where a man earns and they don't. It's how they caught a husband by being pleasing to the eye and how they ensure he comes back to them every night.

DaenerysTargaryensDragonBaby · 22/02/2014 19:05

laura what a bizarre statement.

Cheerleading is a really tough discipline. In it's nature, it's a 'showy' sport - much like figure skating, weightlifting etc. Part of the design of the sport is to 'show off' your skills.

Stop dismissing cheerleading. It is a valid sport.

Rollerderbytillidie2 · 22/02/2014 19:08

check this response out

NigellasGuest · 22/02/2014 19:15

itshardthinkingofanickname did you watch the link or did it not work?

NigellasGuest · 22/02/2014 19:19

I'm willing to bet that most of the men in the audience are related to or involved with those participating and that it's probably not a drooling mass of mac wearing pervs as some would suggest....

big deal - the men in the audience are either relations or involved with the cheerleaders.
If I was a sportswoman I'd want the majority of the audience to be fans of the sport.

DaenerysTargaryensDragonBaby · 22/02/2014 19:24

nigella the reality for most sports women is that there aren't that many 'fans' of their sport.

Most people see women's sports as being not as good as mens, and it's really hard to get a legitimate audience for women's sport.

So, a lot of the crowd tend to be friends and family. We'd all like the majority of the audience to be fans of the sport, but the reality is that there just aren't enough 'fans of the sport' for this to be possible.

itshardthinkingofanickname · 22/02/2014 19:36

I opened it - but had other things to do. Ballet is not just for girls - but I bet there's still a lot of prejudice against boys if they do it. I wonder how close Billy Elliot was to the truth Sad

NigellasGuest · 22/02/2014 19:52

Daenerys do you think part of the answer could be the BBC et al actually broadcasting women's sport? That in turn will create a fanbase and "legitimize" (sp) the women's sport? (imagine if the interest in the women's boxing and tae quan do for example in London 2012 had been taken advantage of)

itshardthinkingofanickname I just wondered if the link was working, nothing more! don't expect everyone to watch it - goodness knows we all have busy lives Smile
Yes there is an AWFUL lot of prejudice against boys who do ballet. Billy Elliot was very close indeed to the truth - despite being set in the 80's it's very much the same today.

itshardthinkingofanickname · 22/02/2014 20:02

If you listen / watch any BBC sports section, women hardly get a look in. The presenter on BBC breakfast is female but the coverage is predominantly football, cricket and rugby. Plus the horse racing selection on the Today program.

Picturesinthefirelight · 22/02/2014 20:18

I don't think that ds and her schoolfriends look very radiant after a 90 min ballet class.

Sweaty exhausted having pushed themselves to the limit.

However she would have loved for dance to have been recognised as a serious form of physical activity at her previous school as would some of the boys at her current school.

She dreaded PE each week. Thankfully she doesn't have to endure it any more.

Picturesinthefirelight · 22/02/2014 20:21

That shouldered DD and her schoolfriends.

grimbletart · 22/02/2014 23:29

The coverage of the winter olympics has been really refreshing - equal time and importance given to the women's events with the women's achievements valued in their own right and not as some adjunct or afterthought to male sport.

hellomarmalade · 22/02/2014 23:49

What?! I'm 14, and I can safely say that at our school the sport people least look forward to is gymnastics or even dance. I enjoy them myself, but only as much as I like football.

hellomarmalade · 22/02/2014 23:51

Besides, why do men and wommens sports have to be different. Why can't girls do rugby, or boys do dance at school. Can they actually come up with a reason?

NigellasGuest · 23/02/2014 09:09

hellomarmalade, I think their excuse reason would be that girls don't "want" to do rugby and boys don't "want" to dance. And of course that's true to an extent - but only because of conditioning from an early age and of course those activities respectively being marketed as sports for one particular gender. The other day my nephews refused point blank to even watch my DD in a 20 minute ballet display. If only they had come, they would have seen that about 20% of the participants were actually boys. One day with any luck we will have 50%!

MajorGrinch · 23/02/2014 17:32

For goodness sake of course they are there to arouse men. That is entirely what it's about. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Maybe we should have the "Boiler Suit Olympics" then? Would that please you? How dare these women wear clothing that allows them freedom of movement.

I could argue that cheerleaders cover up more than gymnasts, but that would fall into the common trap on these pages of attacking another female sport/hobby/pastime rather than accepting and supporting the right of women to undertake whatever sports/hobbies they like for themselves and without judgement....

DaenerysTargaryensDragonBaby · 23/02/2014 17:36

Do you think the mens sports are there to arouse?

They often wear shorts / lyrca / topless / vests etc. Do you consider this is for spectator arousal?

Or do you know that it is conducive to sport to wear clothing that allows freedom of movement? Let's assume you do know this.

Why is it 'sporty' for men, and 'arousing' for women?

NiceTabard · 23/02/2014 21:22

I can't believe that anyone genuinely can't see the difference between a bunch of people doing eg a marathon, and the average cheerleading ensemble at the NFL.

Just google "marathon" and click images, then google "NFL cheerleaders" and click images, and you might be enlightened somewhat.

The fact that cheerleading is bloody difficult and requires a lot of fitness, athleticism etc does not detract from the fact that modern cheerleading at the NFL etc ie the professional cheerleaders, sex is a huge component.

NiceTabard · 23/02/2014 21:23

Ooh in my googling I found this on wikihow.

here

Was scrolling through the "steps" and was wondering if they were going to allude to the fact that professional cheerleaders have to be, well, hot, and lolled when i got to Point 8:

"Get the look. Cheerleaders are not only fit, they are gorgeous too. In order to be a professional cheerleader, you need a pretty face, a curvy body, and a tan, without counting other things. To make your face gorgeous, you should get into a skin care routine of washing, exfoliating, toning, applying an anti aging serum, and moisturizing twice a day everyday. For your body, do exercises for a bigger bottom like squats, lunges, wall sits, calve raises, leg raises, and kickbacks. For a small waist, do exercises like the hundred, crunches, sit ups, oblique crunches, bicycle crunches, and horizontal side supports. For perkier breasts, do push ups, tricep push ups, dive bombers, and side push ups. Also, massage your breasts daily. For your tan body, tan once a week in the sun and use a self-tanner daily. Other things to work on include white teeth, perfect hair, and neat makeup. So, go to your dentist and do everything they say. Whiten your teeth with baking soda, using a baking soda and water mixture to brush your teeth once a month. Start this at twelve. For perfect hair, use a good quality shampoo made for your hair type along with a matching conditioner. Also, use a heat protectant spray when styling and a deep moisturizing treatment once a week. For your makeup, wear lots of mascara on your natural lashes unless you wear fake lashes, in which you should wear only a little. Wear a pink lip gloss or lipstick, never fuchsia. Use a slightly shimmery eyeshadow, but not too shimmery. Glam it up but don't wear blue eyeshadow, red lipstick, or glitter. A nice pink, gold or brown eyeshadow is great, so is pink lipstick. Wear light foundation, powder, and concealer. Use a light blush too."

ArtetasSwollenAnkle · 23/02/2014 21:37

Are people getting their terms mixed up here?

My daughter is in a cheerleading team. This is what they do;

This is Cheer Extreme. It takes hours of training per week. She is shattered afterwards, and frequently covered in aches, pains and bruises. It involves (mostly) girls from 5 or 6 upwards. It is a sport in its own right, not an adjunct to another event. It is massive in the USA and getting bigger in the UK every year. It would be a pity if such skill and dedication was written off as titillation for men. It isn't.

DaenerysTargaryensDragonBaby · 23/02/2014 21:42

I think people are referring to the old style of cheerleading, where girls in short skirts waved Pom Pom's and jumped about.

Maybe google modern cheerleading, you might be 'enlightened somewhat'.

CaptChaos · 23/02/2014 22:15

Cheerleading has always taken hours of training. The video is pretty much what cheer leaders do on side lines and at half times at Football games ime, just without pom poms. No one has suggested that it's not hard work, all that has been suggested is that the women doing it are at sports events for the titillation of men, which of course they are. It doesn't for one second take away the hard work and gymnastic ability of the athletes.

Many troupes/teams also compete in competitions such as in the video. So it is both and adjunct and a sport in it's own right. Cheerleaders haven't waved pom poms and jumped about in short skirts for about 20 years.

I wonder if the reason that there has been good coverage of the women's events in Sochi is because that's where we had medal hopefuls? Would they have shown the women's speed skating if we hadn't expected to get some kind of medals?