One woman on all BBC comedy panel shows - I'm not sure what I think

[breatheslowly]

Apparently all BBC comedy panel shows will have a woman on them reported here.

I really don't know whether this is a step in the right direction. It seems at the moment that when shows have a woman on the panel, they only ever have one. I think that this policy might improve things (by having at least one). But I think it might entrench the tokenism of having only one woman on each show, in a "we've booked our woman, who else are we going to have on" way.

I also sometimes wonder whether there is an element of racial tokenism in comedy panel shows, where you tend not to get more than one comedian from an ethnic minority.

There should be no set limit for however many black, white, female, male members on ANYTHING.

This takes away any achievement of female comedians, they aren't on these shows cause they're funny anymore it's because they have to be!

It's ridiculous

I'm sorry MamaPingu but whilst that's a lovely theory I am a bloke and I went to public school and Cambridge so I recognise a boys club when I see it.

No woman will get to be a regular on QI, I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue etc. on merit alone. And I think they should be. Because some seriously funny women (see my previous post) have had second-rate careers purely because they are women.

That said I find the ones who do get on (Perkins, Brand, Toksvig) second rate. There are many better out there, French & Saunders for two.

So you really dont believe on a 4 person panel show that they can find 2 women that are as funny as the other 2 men on the show? As funny as andy parsons?

Those men are already benefiting from quota filling the unspoken quota that Tv should be doninated by men.

In Tina feys book, she discusses how if a skit is female dominated or even with men the producers will say "people" dont want to see it and add men

I find it hard because I can't stand the thought of a woman getting a place purely because she's a woman.

There are some very funny female comedians, but if they aren't available for example a funny male comedian should stand in rather than an unfunny female comedian.

I realise this can never happen, but I wish things were given on how good they are not their sex. It's a shame! There are good female comedians out there and it's a shame they have to be given a position as they are unable to earn it because they are women

Hi MamaPingu I entirely agree with you in general, I refuse to fill in sex / race / religion surveys at work as recruitment should be on merit.

But in comedy it just isn't. I am not remotely a feminist but I see talented female comics who get nowhere and give up whilst talented male comics always succeed. Even useless male comics (John Bishop,.Marcus Brigstock, David Baddiel, Hugh Dennis) have successful careers.

And Andy Parsons is a very funny guy IMO. As.is Milton Jones.

all tv panel shows are full of cambridge footlights graduates. the bbc don't really know what to do with them so shove them on these shite tv shows

women probably best out of it!

I'm guessing racial goes lower....

Smack the Pony, comedy series by three women, was superb. I have yet to see it repeated.

nina conti is fab! more ventriloquists on telly. or didn't she run over her monkey

I'm not sure if it is a male comic deliberately talking over a female comic. They prep the questions and want to get there joke out first, incase another comic has a similar one. Rendering theirs worthless.
In the comedy world, panel shows are a good living and a spot on one is something to fight for.
Each recording for a 30 min show, is about 3 hours. It would be more interesting to know what gender the people are that deal with the post production. Are men more likely to edit it in favour of the male comics.

I am watching QI. There is one woman on the panel. She has totally let the side down by joking that - at the sinking of Titanic - women who found themselves in a lifeboat without a man at the helm would be useless because they would be ''pointing at little fishies going 'oooh let's go over there!', to which that smug twat Stephen Fry chuckled and said 'yes well I didn't want to say, but exactly...'.

I mean WHAT?

Brilliant! She's doing us a big favour there!

"There are some very funny female comedians, but if they aren't available for example a funny male comedian should stand in rather than an unfunny female comedian."

What is funny or unfunny is personal taste. Why is it that this is accepted for male comedians, whereas for female comedians it becomes a character trait?

It has been said before, but I'll say it again: It's not a level playing field. Women are judged much more harshly than men. When a women isn't funny on occasion, she becomes an "unfunny female comedian". When a male isn't funny on occasion, it becomes a matter of taste. His comedianship isn't questioned, however.

We need more women that are funny at least to some people's taste on telly to create the level playing field, eventually. Because only if we get used to seeing them we will learn to judge them to the same standards as we judge men.

So basically, we need perceived positive discrimination to achieve this. I say perceived, because I think positive discrimination is not really positive discrimination. It is a conscious effort to not negatively discriminate, which is the default.

Exactly Pingu. I hate it when women try and win favour with men by reinforcing negative gender stereotypes.

MamaPigs, you fell uncomfortable about women getting a place on a panel because they are a woman (which lets face it wouldn't actually be the case, it would be because she is funny and has talent but just not opportunity) yet you are fine with the blatant recruitment of men onto the panels because of who they know.

So basically positive discrimination is acceptable for men but not women?

Really sorry that should be MamPingu!

The comedy scene is dominated by men (agents, producers, promoters etc) and they largely get to pick the acts that get the air time. It could be argued that they may not make the best choices when picking female comics - for instance they may go for a pretty face, or not find a woman's observational satire relevant to their own lives - and therefore not find it funny. The problem would be intensified with positive discrimination - if they have to find one funny woman then they may just choose one that is a good side-kick for the male acts to bounce off. The cynic in me suspects it suits the men on the panel not to have a funny woman as it may juxtapose against their own styles. Maybe women comedians are chosen to make the other male contestants look good rather than make any impact in their own right. It all comes down to having to play by men's rules. I don't think the producers of these panel shows have the best interests of the female comedy scene at heart - they just want to pull in the viewers with the same old faces and material and avoid any discrimination controversy.

Agree with LordFocus. There is sexism throughout the comedy industry, from the lowliest gigs upwards, which ensures it's harder for women to get to TV level in the first place. Of course there are more than enough women to do TV panel shows, but the problem isn't just limited to TV. If women were proportionally represented at all comedy venues it would make a huge difference.

I find it hard because I can't stand the thought of a woman getting a place purely because she's a woman.

Argh. She wouldn't be. However women are currently not getting jobs because they are women. And "women aren't funny" because the men in charge don't find them funny.

If you can really look at a film or a comedy panel show and think that yes, 80% of the time this role would be ruined by actually allowing a women in I suggest there is something wrong with you.

It's not just comedians either. Some panel games might be just for comedians, like Mock The Week, but others are for intelligent and witty people: QI, HIGNFY, Just A Minute, etc. Ideal for Lauren Laverne, Victorian Coren-Mitchel, Pam Ayres, and so on.

And "women aren't funny" because the men in charge don't find them funny.

Or because they feel threatened by funny women.

I don't think anybody feels "threatened" by funny women winterhat!

Great shout for Pam Ayres Tiggy, there's somebody who fills any programme she's on with laughter.

I'll add to my listing of under-appreciated women comics with Mel Hudson and Vicki Pepperdine, tremendously talented. Vicki's gone into acting now and I'm not sure what's Mel's up to. Their shows get repeated on 4extra every so often, the first one especially is a tour de force, right up there with the League of Gentlemen's first show.

Some men do feel threatened by powerful women IMO Vivien. They think women should know their place and stop trying to take their jobs! A female stand-up comedian is likely to be opinionated, strong, in a position of power over her audience, etc. Some men don't like that, as with any other job where they may want to bring down strong women.

I see what you're driving at winterhat but is that based upon recent experience? I wouldn't say I'm a regular but have been to a couple of comedy stand-up shows for each of the last few years and the audiences aren't remotely hostile, they're encouraging and out for a good time.

I've heard tales of the old Comic Store being a bit rough on newcomers but my one time there (in the audience of course) it was a very pleasant atmosphere, most at tables and eating. Jongleurs ?Clapham was more lively as the drink was flowing more freely but again not a hostile atmosphere.

I'm sure that "back in the day" of the working man's club circuit it was incredibly hard for women to be stand-ups, the successes I know from that era (well, I can only really think of Hilda Baker, amybe Beryl Reid?) would have needed to be tough.