One woman on all BBC comedy panel shows - I'm not sure what I think

[breatheslowly]

Apparently all BBC comedy panel shows will have a woman on them reported here.

I really don't know whether this is a step in the right direction. It seems at the moment that when shows have a woman on the panel, they only ever have one. I think that this policy might improve things (by having at least one). But I think it might entrench the tokenism of having only one woman on each show, in a "we've booked our woman, who else are we going to have on" way.

I also sometimes wonder whether there is an element of racial tokenism in comedy panel shows, where you tend not to get more than one comedian from an ethnic minority.

I think the demand that it's fine to have women comedians on the shows as long as they're funny is telling. Do we judge the men comedians on the shows like that? No, we just accept that they're comedians, who we may or may not find funny

Actually, I was saying that they should be funny rather than any old person just chucked on there to make up numbers in the female camp.

And I don't know about you, but if one of the male comedians isn't funny I turn to OH & say "he's shit, hope they don't get him on again" which is as much as I can do! Unfortunately, I seem to do that more with female comedians than I do with male - maybe they're too subtle or clever for me?

Much of that is personal anyway, as I quite like Sarah Millican & Joe Brand for example, whereas I just don't find Shappi Khorsandi funny at all (to name but one) and mock the week seems to almost go out of it's way to find desperately unfunny female participants....

Well yes, you would hope they would put someone on because they are reasonably funny, and not just because they are a woman.

I agree that of course what is funny is subjective, but I do also think we judge humour coming from men and women differently. I think there is a bit more to it than it just being a personal preference for a type of humour. I have a feeling that the way we perceive women (as different from men), which includes the sexism that we have been ingrained with in this society, affects it.

To have rude humour for example may be much harder for women, I think, until we are used to this particular woman doing it, then it can become funny like it can be when a man does it. But secondly, when a woman isn't funny (enough), I think we judge her much harder than when a man isn't very funny, and are much more ready to dismiss her as a comedian than we would with a man. Much like many women in a man-dominated area, really.

I would like to point out that I have no idea whether your dislike of Shappi K. has anything to do with this of course, CaptainG. You're more than welcome to your own dislikes and likes.

My thoughts were about when there's a pattern in society like women being judged less funny than men, there is a chance that there is some sexism involved, on the whole. Not necessarily in one particular case though.

Similar to when hoards of women "choose" to stay at home after having children, but men on the whole don't, this choice may not be the free choice that people perceive it to be. Stereotypical gender roles permeate many of our choices and judgements

Some quiz formats (such as mock the week) are particularly bad for the man-talking-over-woman syndrome. Its usually better when people are asked specific questions.

Here's Jo Brand, in 2010, on why women find panel shows so hard

www.theguardian.com/culture/2009/jun/10/television-panel-shows-jo-brand

If she feels intimidated imagine what it's like for younger or less experienced comics.

I find women on programmes like Would I Lie to you funny because they get their chance to say something.

I wonder if having a "token" woman who is talked over by all the male participants will actually be counterproductive. Will the behaviour seen on television be modelled as normal, which will further perpetuate the behaviour of talking over women generally, in society?

Perhaps, instead of having token women, the Beeb and other channels should have policies of inclusion, whereby, if male panellists do tend to talk over women, they will not continue to be booked.

I think the concept of "women aren't as funny" is that whole Ginger Rogers did it backwards in high heels thing. A woman has to be twice as good as a man (in general) to be thought adequate.

i think the men on these shows already know that saying something sexist or offensive is pretty much career suicide - but there is certainly an element at times of disrespect or as you say, talking over the women. Women also don't tend to resort to bland sexual based jokes for cheap laughs so they are somehow seen as less funny.

this is why i think that in a show where there are 4 panel places there should be 2 women and one of those should be a "regular". Someone who is a team leader or there every week or the host.

Instead of saying at least one female guest every week - why not make that person one of the regular panel members, like Alan Davies. the only person i can think of who existed in this capacity was Ulrika Johnson (but she was certainly there as eye candy at the start). or maybe Victoria Coren.

I saw an episode of QI the other day which actually had a majority of women!! And they were great too.

It was very cheering, but at the same time depressing that that was such a surprise and a rarity. But I'm hoping it might be the first of more such...

I reckon what they should aim for is parity over a series - so you could get any of all male, all female, one man/woman or even split. Would be interesting to see how the different dynamics worked!

TinyTwoTears I was just going to post exactly the same thing.

Mock the Week is awful, as you say the Ben just talk over the women. In the microphone stand up bit I've actually seen female contributors meekly step back and allow the men another turn, it makes my blood boil.

Surely the production team have looked at tapes of past shows and could discreetly order the men to have some respect. Just because you are very old hands and very quick doesn't mean you should walk all over less experienced panelists of either sex.

The merit based argument would be fine if it was a level playing field, but it's not, so agree that positive discrimination is needed to kick things into touch a bit.

I do think there's a tendency to react differently to male and female comedians we don't like - with men it's usually more 'they're not to my taste', whereas with women it seems to be 'they're rubbish', as though the men are obviously funny to someone, but the woman is just inherently unfunny.

hy not 50% of guests. You know actually achieve equality. Radical I know. What am I thinking of

This is what I was thinking..and I know you will have someone say.. oh well there are fewer female comedians...we'll have to get an inferior female comic to make up numbers.

But no that's not true.. you just need to find 2 females who are funny out of all the comedians (for say QI) and even if there were only 50 female comedians compared to hundreds of male comedians.. Women still make up 50% of the viewers and we should be represented.

I refuse to believe that only white males are funny.. in fact I can think of a few who make me want to gauge my eyes out. But they are allowed to benefit form sexism and racism..but it's tokenism if a black woman gets on the telly.. grrr.

Also, some of the best panelist aren't even comics.. I always watch QI when sandy Totvig is on

My favourite ever QI was the one where Ronni Ancona did her upper class explorer. She didn't appear on the show again for ages, despite being the best thing on it.

I agree a series average would be better than a token woman on each show. And quite liking the 50% idea, the talent scouts would actually have to go out and look for new comedians. TBH if you look at the list of QI contestants there are a few regulars and then a very long tail with single appearances. I'm sure they could easily increase the percentage of women on the single appearances list and from that they could boost up the regulars with a few more women who have proved themselves.

I remember that Ronni Ancona QI. The only QI I've seen with a majority of women was a 'special' women's one.
It pisses me off that most panel shows have exclusively male regulars (HIGNFY, WILTY, QI) so even with an equal split in guests the men end up dominating. I love Rob Brydon, David Mitchell and Lee Mack so I'm more forgiving there but Alan Davies is shit and Stephen Fry is only OK. I only watch QI if there happens to be someone to make up for how dire Alan Davies is.

There wasn't a "special women's one". There was a show with mostly women. Kind of what people want.

Well I'm all for it and I'm a non-PC bloke.

One of the funniest comics of the 70s and 80s was Denise Coffey, she should be up there with the legends but most people haven't heard of her. Jo Kendal was equally good, and Lisa Tarbuck is usually the funniest and best panellist on any show she's on.

IMO it would improve the shows no end, laddish shows like Mock the Week.just aren't funny.

I am unsure about this because surely they should book the best people for the show regardless of whether those people are men or women.
Although anything that means I see less of Milton Jones is a good thing.
I think Sue Perkins should be given a regular spot on QI she is brilliant.

Ronni Ancona is brilliant, Me and the DDs really enjoy QI when she's on.

IIRC the first two episodes of QI in which 2 of the 5 participant were female were indeed "special women's edition" of QI; one was D for domesticity and one was G for girls and boys. There have subsequently been non-special editions with two or three women, but it's staggering that having women as 40% of the participants was an exception that was only justified by the fact that it was an episode about housework.

I agree that more Ronni Ancona is always a good thing.

Tiggy there was a 'special women's one' I saw it. Maybe you didn't. They banged on about it all the way through and it was mentioned in the info bit on sky that it was a 'special' edition featuring women and Alan fecking Davies My enragement made it stick in my mind.

There have been 2 shows with all female guests: 'Jam, Jelly' and Juice' and 'Kaleidoscope'. The gender of the panellists weren't mentioned in the introduction.

There was an episode called 'Girls and Boys' with Ronni Ancona, Sandi Toksvig and Jack Dee. It's the one where they talk about women in comedy.

Susan Calman should be in everything and Nina Conti should be in nothing.

hootloop yes they should..but as women make up 50% of the population that should mean that 50% of women are in the panel. Unless people women aren't as funny as men.

Anyway they obviously haven't been choosing the best person for the job. They have been choosing the best white man for the job or we wouldn't be in this situation.

I mean Andy Parsons isn't funnier than ANYONE. And MIlton Jones should be shot not on the telly

Oh lay off Milton Jones, I think he's v funny, though I grant you not great at spontaneous topical quips. But I will eat my Radio Times if anyone has ever turned on a comedy panel show and said "Oh good! Andy Parsons is on".