Feeling conflicted about (childless) man's feminist views on mothering

[NomNomNom]

Hi,

I think this is one of my first forays into the feminist section, although I've been lurking. I was hoping to get your balanced and reasonable views on this.

Basically, I don't know what to think about this - my personal pissed-offness is clashing with my political views, I think.

I have this colleague who is in his mid-20s (I'm slightly older), childless, very well-educated, very right-on, yet he seems inexperienced in real-life matters. I don't like him for various reasons that are not really relevant. Mostly that he expresses vaguely political views when it helps him impress people in positions of power at work, but doesn't really know a lot about the actual issues and seems to put it on a bit.

Today he posted a video on Facebook of a kind of spoken-word performance by a young female poet/stand-up that was all about the physical changes motherhood brings and how women are great, strong etc for what they go through during pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding. It was a great poem, I really like it, and it expresses many things I think as well.

But somehow I'm really pissed off that this guy has posted it. He has nothing to do with children. He'll never go through those experiences himself. I often think he jumps on political bandwagons, so I don't know if my discomfort is to do with that.

I think if a dad had posted the video, I would have thought how lucky his partner is.

But somehow, a childless (privileged) guy doing it makes me angry. I've always been a feminist, but only found feminist approaches to mothering and the whole mothering/motherhood distinction a little while after my daughter was born. Reading blogs about feminist mothering, Adrienne Rich etc. really helped me to make sense of my situation and feelings, some of it was so eye-opening and just amazing. I really like how other mothers seem to experience the same issues as me and then write about it in a thoughtful and concise way, taking apart the challenges - it seems like a kind of almost intimate community of mothers (that sounds completely wanky and essentialist, I know!). I don't know how to explain it. So somehow, I just get the sense that this guy I know is 'doing' feminism in an almost consumerist way, putting it on - because feminist views on mothering have nothing to do with his life, so why is he posting about that?

I have to admit that I occasionally feel slightly conflicted about aspects of my feminism - e.g. the whole question of whether men can be feminists (though I read a great explanation regarding how one can perceive feminism as either shared political aims or shared experience). I'm still on the fence when it comes to those 2 views, but I suppose for me feminist approaches to motherhood are rooted in shared experience, and this guy does not share it, so he should butt out.

But on the other hand, more men should admire women for the strength involved in making a person and nurturing them, so… I just don't know!!

[NomNomNom]

Our joint boss is very feminist, but she's never said much about motherhood issues before and she's childless. She posts a lot about different feminist things that directly have something to do with her life. (Trying to be intentionally vague, sorry!)

The video/poem itself is really good. Not trying to tell anyone how to do or feel anything, just kind of expressing the extreme physical aspects.

I don't know what I would think about a childless female friend posting similar. I do get very annoyed when one of my childless friends tells me how she would raise children and what I'm doing wrong. Eg her child will know who's the boss, and will sleep in its own room from day 1. Mothers who have trouble giving birth naturally are just too highly strung and need to relax. That kind of thing.

[Backonthefence]

I really don't get it anyone who posts anything on facebook is looking for attention its why they posted.

What's funny here is that the OP by her own admission liked the video and agrees with it. By the way he has been portrayed he seems to be a bit of a kiss ass but that doesn't make him a bad person.

[noddingoff]

I'd be annoyed at the whippersnapper trying to muscle in on my patch at work. If you fancy a bit of sport, bone up on the political parties or subjects he claims to like and engage him in really earnest boring conversation till you plumb the shallows of his knowledge and leave him floundering, ha!

[CaptainGrinch]

I can't understand why the OP has this man on Facebook when she doesn't like him. Is it purely to dissect his every posting? That comes across as quite two faced TBH.

If he's not a friend then get rid. If you don't feel you can get rid, don't throw him to the MN Wolves based on your admittedly biased opinion of him.

I don't see how posting a video that you find admirable & informative, of a woman speaking, is mansplaining.....

[DuskAndShiver]

I totally get where you are coming from on this. I think "appropriating" is a very good way of putting it.
He hasn't earned the right to spout off about things like that.

I am overjoyed that a senior man who has just come to work with us (who is new, came in a restructure and has a lot to prove) has immediately started his new job making it clear by what he does (what he does, not what he says) that he is supporting his wife on maternity leave by getting out of the office every single day on time.

For most men, the opportunity to support motherhood will come by supporting their partners, or by taking a pro-parent stance at work. He needs to walk the walk, forget about talking the talk, and how about a nice big cup of shut the fuck up.

You know you can turn people off in your feed without them knowing?

[Trills]

So the guy posted something you agree with, and that touched you, and it annoys you because you don't like him?

I agree.

The thing he has done is not a bad thing in itself.

You are interpreting it as being done for the wrong reasons because you don't like him.

That may be the case, but don't say that in general people should not be interested in issues unless they are personally affected by them.

[Trills]

If you say he's a twat, I believe you too.

But he's not a twat for posting this.

He was already a twat. This is not in itself a twattish act. It is only a twattish thing to do because he is a twatty person who has done it.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

CaptainGrinch, I couldn't agree with you more.

Why on earth be a Facebook friend with a colleague you don't like? And then wtaf, attacking that person for posting videos you agree with because you think he may be appropriating?

I think that is a large and rather hypocritical stew to be making from one oyster. And posters here seem to have come very close to actually attacking the poem, which seems very unhelpful.

Who's to say that this guy:

• Doesn't have a sister, cousin, mother or friend who struggled with the issues, and that it was this that prompted his post?
  
• Didn't talk it over with a woman before posting?
  
• Didn't go to a poetry evening and hear the poet in person, and was prompted by that experience to find the poem and post it?
  

etc etc

Was the poet the very wonderful Hollie McNish, by the way?

[DuskAndShiver]

The other part of it is that, depending on the content of the re-post, he is getting very dangerously close to presuming to approve of certain types of women's bodies, which he doesn't have the right to do, or express.

[ArtetasSwollenAnkle]

And depending on the content of the re-post, he may also be a cattle rustler and sheep worrier....

But, we don't know the content of the post, so we can't be sure.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

I have posted numerous times on FB about various pieces of good and bad news re gay rights, eg the passing of equal marriage bills. So have lots of my friends, gay and straight. I have never heard anyone once express the opinion that it was wrong for me to do so on the grounds I was straight and was therefore appropriating their experience. I've gone and checked with a couple of gay friends now, both of whom I trust to tell me the truth, and they are not in the least bothered about my posting.

If we only speak freely of those things which we have directly experienced, we limit solidarity in the world. I will not accept that I ought not to post on issues relating to poverty, for example, because I am not poor.

There is of course an issue about how one posts, but this is different from whether one posts.

[Ubik1]

Maybe he just shared the poem cos he's trying to participate in the feminist vibe at work, but couldn't give a shit really. Perhaps he posted it, thought 'job done' and and then went and played Call of Duty on his X Box for 3 hrs.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

And Ubik1, maybe you're right about his intentions or subsequent actions.... but I wasn't aware that anyone is under any duty to post with only pure intentions, or that they may not do something trivial after they've posted.

[Ubik1]

Christ I was only attempting to lighten the mood. Not everything posted on Facebook has great significance. He may not even have read this oh so important poem.

Forgot it was FWR where everyone has had a sense of humour bypass

[MrsCakesPremonition]

Was the poet Hollie McNish? If so, she has written an album of poems inspired by becoming a mother which is definitely worth listening to.

I think my feelings would vary depending whether he had posted the item as if he was taking credit for the poem in some way or if he was simply sharing or reposting something he has seen elsewhere and enjoyed. But it is very hard to judge that without knowing him personally.

[Ubik1]

thankyou for positioning me as anti-feminist Buffy

[curlew]

I bet it was Hollie McNish. She's fab.

[ArtetasSwollenAnkle]

Buffy, in your analogy, you are worried about being seen to appropriate. Now, if this suck-up nobhead colleague had re-worded the poem, I can see your point. But isn't he just posting the poet speaking her work? He is giving her another channel to voice her work. He is not re-writing it from his own pov. Don't you think that that is a huge difference?

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

Buffy, it clarifies your reasoning, but I still disagree, I'm afraid, for the reason Artetas has given.

Ubik1, I'm afraid I didn't realise you were making a joke; it read like you were making a serious point instead. It could be that I'm overly serious, or it could have been that the joke wasn't very good...