How to correct preschoolers view of girls?

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My ds is 3 rising 4, and is coming home from nursery saying a whole load of things about what girls and boys can/ can't do. Sad the gender divide starts so very young. But shocked (inside only not showing him of course) by how strong the 'rules' he's understanding are. It's not just the occasional comment it's everything split along gender divide.

I wondered whether to ignore it/ not make a big fuss/ write it off as just a phase, but decided against this. He's getting strong messages from society / culture at large and no message to the contrary, so I need to be that counter balance.

How can I word it so he understands, no big deal but no what you said isn't correct. And he's a cheeky little boy and has learnt to tease by saying things that he knows I don't like, so defo don't want it to turn into that!

It's stuff like:
"I don't like girls"
Why? "girls only like butterflies and dressing up and I don't like doing that"

"I can't play ball with girls cos they are bad at it"
"x called me a girl today and I was sad"
"girls can't play cars and trains, only boys can"
"I can't be friends with girls, they can't be friends"
"I had to play with (girl) today and I didn't have any fun cos she's a girl"
"I can't say 'love' cos girls say 'love' and boys say 'like'"

Etc etc etc

Honestly it's unrelenting mysogeny out of the mouth of my innocent baby!!!

Hmm. Sounds typical. Somehow I think you are going to have a lot of clashes if you take this too seriously.

Just quietly correct (is there a female relative you can use to demonstrate that he does like girls?) and make sure he's exposed to as few sexist messages as possible at home (from books, toys, adverts etc). Don't panic about it as it is a phase but equally make sure it doesn't go unchallenged.

I often challenge it...
'I don't like girls' ... Rubbish what about me? Your best friend X or Y (2 girls he's been friends with since birth) or you baby cousin?
Girls can't / don't like .... I often point out that some girls can / do like etc . I work in construction & specialise in a very particular area of transport buildings so that helps destroy some massive stereotypes.
Girls only like pink .... But I hate pink and i'm a girl my favourite colour is green what's your favourite colour?
We often talk about everybody being different and I think that helps. I find he's slightly better than his similar aged female cousin whose parents seem to reinforce stereotypes, which just puzzles me.

I think you have to do a combination of not taking it too seriously, and not letting it stand.

So, "I don't like girls" is maybe worth pointing out once or twice all the girls he actually likes.

I have a DD the same age and she was (until quite recently) lof the "some of my best friends are boys" school of prejudice: "I HATE boys. Well, except for Johnny, Cian, Joseph, Michael, and Colin. I like those boys that are my friends. But I DON'T LIKE boys." :o

But don't bother doing it more than once or twice. After that just ignore the comment, show no interest in it.

The factually incorrect ones are easier to simply correct, in the way you do with lots of things at that age "No, some birds can't fly. No, many girls like colours other than pink." etc.

Ooh yes I'll try the 'what about me?' tactic as he's a total mummy's boy and I am his favouritist person ever (basks in glory whilst it lasts!).

And I'll encourage playdates with girls / mixed genders so I can remind him that he had fun.

I'm not sure whether it's best to go down the 'were all the same' route (aka same smile type of thinking), or 'we re all different' route. Can't remember whether kids will be more into being different or similar at this age.

I do think there are one or two extremely girly girls in his class who werent at all a couple of months ago, which are sparking his 'girls don't do x' rules. I'm glad I'm not their mum as I'd find that equally hard to get my head around!

They do grow out of this phase though. I don't think it means he is heading towards being a sexist man.

It's normal to have a phase about this age to be very set about being a boy or being a girl, the 'difference' and not liking boys/girls, as part of forming their identity.

That's not to say you should not challenge it! Do so every time!

I'm dreading this with DD. She only really plays with boys and I'm worried that once this starts, she won't have anyone to play with. What do the girls that like running around screaming and falling over rough and tumble and the boys who like dolls and princesses do during this phase? They already seem so pigeonholed. At 3.

I am glad to hear its a phase!

I don't really like the idea of having 14+ yrs of arguing with a sexist pig of a child :)

I know that it is normal, but does it have to be? I ask because DS (3.5) hasn't started this yet - he happily plays with the boys and girls at playgroup, with whatever toys take his fancy - as do most of the other children there.

Perhaps I've been lucky with our local playgroup and it'll all change once he gets different influences at school (so far the only bad ideas he's come home with have involved zombies! and 'karate' kicking), and obviously it's out of my control, just the luck of the draw, but it seems to me that if my child's playgroup can avoid it, then others should stand a good chance too. Not that it's a haven of non-genderising - the boys do tend to cluster around the cars, and the girls around the baby dolls, but there's always plenty of cross-pollination and no exclusion.

I hesitate to mention it, and I can't imagine it ever happening, but perhaps along with Ofsted looking at there being engaging activities for different ages they should look at how well the children mix together gender-wise as well.

I think it's a mistake to label it as a necessary or expected part of development. Ds didn't have any of that while home educated and other home ed kids I know don't appear to have that rigid gender divide.

It is probably normal in that it is has become the dominant culture, for many reasons & lots to do with marketing and obviously the patriarchy, and then the dominant culture defines it as not only normal but actually necessary and thus perpetuates itself.

It's important to challenge it in age and developmentally appropriate ways otherwise children will think it's normal.

I tell them why they think that, and then say that it isn't true and give an example, like daddy likes butterflies and he is a boy.

Generally, I try to react in the same kind of way I would if they said zebras are green with orange spots - that it's a silly nonsense thing to say but no harm done as long as they don't really think it's true!

Sorry, that should start *ask them why they think that.

I think it has a lot to do with the parents of his peers, sadly. I'm really lucky in that DS goes to a really hippy, right on pre school, so we get very little of this nonsense, but the little we do get can be traced back to parents who like to reinforce stereotypes. I'm braced for DS starting primary in September, when I'm sure it's all going to change.

He's having his 4th birthday party on Sunday btw, and has specifically requested butterfly face painting and a butterfly cake .

It seems to come from the kids with older sibling, and gets worse when they start school. I try really hard to provide other role models in books and real life, point out all the female bus drivers, and argue with him and friends - not sure how much it takes, but he has loved seeing butterflies at Wisley and on Isle of Wight.

On the plus side, he's happy to play with and chat to girls when we go to school and has a couple girl friends. But very hard to contradict "boys wear blue and girls have to wear pink" in a playground full of boys in navy/black/blue coats and girls in ones that all have a tell-tale pink touch even if they aren't pink all over. "Local shops are boring" isn't very convincing as a reason even if it's most of the truth.

He now wants to be a scientist like Nina and the Neurons. Now just need to convince him I can drive - I do it rarely, partly as DP can't navigate at all - and whenever I do drive ds is convinced it's an anomaly.

I would also be having a chat with nursery staff so they can pick up on this when examples arise, e.g. yes Chloe likes dressing up, but she also likes playing with duplo and you like that as well, don't you?, rather than you having to deal with this at one remove at home.

My DS is 4, and I don't think I've ever heard him speak in this way about girls. He'd certainly get short shrift if he said that girls couldn't play with x or y toy.

i usually ask, Why can't boys play with butterflies? leads to some interesting dicussions...

OP- re: "we are all the same" route and "we are all different" route - I tend to try to show them that there is no one box we can put people in. Eg. "only girls cry" - we talk about how we all get sad or angry about some things and do cry about them, though people do express themselves differently because they are different people. That kind of thing.

I would/did challenge it. Every time. (I like to argue about gender so I don't find this too arduous).

I would also go and chat to preschool/school about it - our primary school head is fairly used to me trotting along to see him about this sort of stuff - often they haven't really thought about it very hard and don't mind changing a bit.

Now I get to have little chats with the resistant materials staff at secondary - my dds love resistant materials (woodwork, metalwork) but the teachers (older men) seem to think that these are for boys. It's amazing how little has changed since I was at school.

But there is hope, my dds are very good at challenging gender stereotypes themselves. So don't give up!

Challenge it, all the time.

DS2 has ASD and is quite rigid in his thinking. He was also very easily led by what his peers said about things like this, because he was desperate to fit in. Any statements which started with 'Girls only like....' or 'Girls don't like....' I countered with, 'Hmmmm, well, I don't think that's right, because I like....' or 'So and so doesn't do that, and she's a girl'. In this way, he's learned to think for himself about things. He also doesn't come from a terribly traditional family, I do most of the 'man' jobs, and DH is far better at cleaning and shit than I, so that's probably helped.

The people we are going to be are formed in these early years.

I would challenge it too.

He's saying it because he's hearing it from the children at preschool. They are saying it because they too are hearing it from parents and older siblings.

Its really damaging to be forced into rigid set of gender determined stereotypes. This isn't just about him treating girls as equals (although this is obviously important) its about allowing him to develop his own personality and interests without fear of what people may think. He will be on the receiving end of a lot of reinforcement about what he should/shouldn't like or do and if you don't counter that no-one will.