Do I just have "that" look?

[whatdoesittake48]

yesterday I was out in town and subjected to two incidents of men calling me darling and being generally leery.

I am 40 - I was wearing a heavy coat, a crocheted hat, leggings and Dr martens. I also have very short hair...

I have done all i can to avoid that kind of thing but been subjected to it all my adult life.

I even cultivate a "get fucked" look. but it still happens.

Has anyone else tried and failed to change their look or the way they dress to avoid this shit?

I spoke to my daughter who is 12 about it - she said she would just ignore it. I told her to never be afraid to be impolite to someone who made her feel uncomfortable. She is beautiful (I would say that) and she is going to get this crap too.

Feeling angry right now :(

It's nothing to do with the way you look. I've reached this conclusion after years and years of getting it dressed in a wide and varied range of outfits - school uniform, running kit, dressy clothes, slobby clothes, short skirts, baggy jumpers, DMs, with my scowliest face and my friendliest face alike.

Unfortunately I'm still getting the 'cheer up love, it might never happen'.

I've obviously got that sort of face.

And I've never got this shit whether in a mini skirt or jeans, fleece or Mum boots.

I can only assume mousy brown hair, glasses and smallish tits make you invisible.

Also I got bullied/teased a lot at school, so I probably blank twats before they even open their mouths.

I never get it either. I guess I'm invisible. I am quite plain too I suppose.

I don't believe it has anything to do with looks or dress, and it would not advise spending emotional energy thinking about how to change yourself to avoid it. It's about certain Neanderthal men feeling entitled to comment, leer and expect a positive response. We should not have to deal with this nonsense, and certainly shouldn't have to worry about teenage DCs, but this is why feminism is still needed!

For what it's worth I ever between the 'fuck off' type response (my new favourite answer to "cheer up, it might never happen" is " you're talking to me, so it already has" courtesy of someone on here) and a sort of haughty ignoring. I don't think either is brilliant but it's the best I've come up with.

What got me was the response to my half smirk half scowl was to his mate "what did I do wrong there, then?".

What did you do right - more like.

I suppose I just want respect really - not much to ask.

often I dress very feminine - but yesterday I just wanted to be left alone.

I wonder if looking kind of unfeminine sets them off - it becomes more of a game or a power play.

Sometimes I really fear for my daughter. She tells me that she knows what to do. But does she really?

In my experience replying with fuck off tends to escalate things - which is not to say it isn't enormously satisfying. It really is. But you have to then be prepared to have a shouting match. Often I'm not, and I'd only ever do that in a very public place with lots of other people around.

When I don't shout I ignore. Or give them my most evil stare, the one that really says 'You are scum and you know it'.

Yes Jay that's what I meant about neither being brilliant - basically you either have to play along with unwanted attention and keep it light and friendly, or risk the situation getting aggressive and escalating. Depressing.

I very rarely get it. I cultivate a miserable countenance. Also, no tits.

For some men, the fact that you're female is enough, no matter how you're addressed.

I'm often in pain when I walk, so tend to have a sour face to reflect it, but still get the odd hoot out of a white van. I tend to look at them in the same way I'd regard a massive turd I was taking care not to step in and I definitely don't take the time to respond.

how you're dressed

How you're addressed is the whole problem.

I lump all comments - complimentary, leery, rude and downright abusive - into the same category. If it's a comment from a stranger, I don't want it.

Same applies to unsolicited comments from women, but those are infrequent.

It's not you, it's them.

I don't think it's the way you look, it's just dick head blokes who think all women enjoy that 'flattery' .

My SS dh calls it my 82 year old granny - and I even think she likes it!

I've taken to giving the middle finger.

I have had men tell me that women like this sort of thing. That we feel complimented by it.

That sort of man gets quite put out when I tell him that I am a woman, and I hate it. I feel it's insulting. That some random bloody stranger telling me I'm beautiful/ugly/miserable/wolf whistling isn't a compliment, it's offensive.

They are even more put out when I point out that there is a whole website devoted to this sort of low level everyday sexism, so it's not just me being a mardy cow.

It's the pinnacle of male privilege, the one that even the poorest male can be shown to have. What it says to society at large is that women thrive on unsolicited comments from random men, because we are so subservient to them that we lap it all up. That it makes our day, because a man, any man, has lowered himself to notice us and has bestowed his precious opinion, that we have appeared worthy of his notice.

The problem is most definitely not with the way anyone dresses. The problem is with men and how important they think they are.

I've had women tell me to lighten up and that personally they enjoy a bit of casual objectification from strange men.

When I was c. 12 or 13 my best friend and I took pride in counting the number of beeps we got from men in passing cars, too. Nice.

It's not the way you look at all, so nothing you can change. I had a lightbulb moment on an MN thread when someone poster that no matter what you wear you can't disguise the fact that you have a vagina, and that is all it takes.

And how many times times have I been told that my objections are just bad humour. 'Lighten up'

I agree you shouldn't invest too much in trying to avoid it. It's not worth letting it into your head to much.

I rarely get this at my current weight - large but not noticeably obese = invisible. If I lose weight I tend to hit a leering point - it's always the same, men start looking / commenting. I hate it though and it makes me feel unsafe, always has.