Porn is violence against women

[Grennie]

I have never been a supporter of porn, but it is only as I have read more feminist blogs and books that I have realised this is true, for the following reasons.

1. Porn always objectifies women
2. Most porn nowdays features men being violent to women as part of sex
3. Porn gives out the message that women enjoy all kinds of degrading sex acts
4. Porn teaches boys and girls unrealistic ideas of female sexuality

Thus porn has a negative impact on all women, whether you ever watch it or not.

Agree with OP

Art

The problem with amateur porn, or should I say 'a' problem with amateur porn, is not knowing whether both participants have given their consent to post the porn on the web.

There was a post in relationships a couple of weeks back, were a dp had posted a sex tape of him and his partner without her knowledge. The sex tape was done with her consent, and so shows her to be enjoying it. Yet, she was devastated to find out that the person she loves and has spent 18yrs with could do this to her.

There are also specific websites set up for non consensual posting of home made porn, with a name given to it - revenge porn.

I don't really get the whole argument of expressing ones sexuality...........over the internet, for the whole world to see.

Perhaps someone can explain it to me. (Not being facetious, generally interested in seeing from a viewpoint that i am just incapable of grasping)

It smacks of attention seeking to me. Or maybe a bit of ego boosting, or showing off, or please validate me etc. I just can't see it as anything other than negative.

Now now, let's play nicely. I think it's fair to ask what was the point of the OP, given that it isn't a subject with much disagreement within feminist circles, certainly on this board. And nowhere have I tried to tell anyone what to discuss or otherwise. But then I guess you know that.

I am broadly in agreement with the OP. I am merely asking what the OP's motives are. I wouldn't start a thread stating that women should receive equal pay, for the same reason.

Enlighten, it's a fair point about poster's motives, and whether it's posted with consent or not. I also wonder what happens when someone stumbles across footage of someone they know. Would make for an interesting conversation next time you see them at the coffee machine, I suppose!

I have little doubt that some people do it for kicks. Different strokes ...It's a separate issue to a massive meat-grinder of an industry though, at least in my book.

I couldn't stumble across it, I have no desire to seek it out and watch it.

I prefer to enjoy my own little sex show, that I participate in without the cameras rolling.

Buffy

I've never really thought of it in terms of are men suffering the same, and then it would be equal. (i'm not sure if i have misunderstood you, or if that is what you meant) I mostly think of it being a guy thing to post it, but what concerns me more, is how many young naive people do it, and then years down the line realise the massive implications of doing so.

Things like, family seeing it, future children seeing it, new partners seeing it, future employees etc.

My dd1 is 13 and tbh it's scaring the hell out of me, especially as she has confided that she has been pressured for underwear pictures already.

Ah, I get you.

How can you get around the fact though, that every supposedly free choice is not though, in a patriarchal society? I mean other than over throw it, how can you have it now?

I'm new to feminism and still learning.

It's a bit whoosh at the moment, as my 3 youngest are back from nursery and not getting on with the drawing activity I have tried to occupy them with!

I will read again later, but thank you very much for taking the time out to explain it for me. Much appreciated. Perhaps I need a start at the beginning book list, background history, ideologies etc. Any ideas?

I did study social sciences at uni, and i'm not quite as moronic as i may sound, but I have dumbed down a lot over the years, and would love to learn up. Thanks.

Well I suppose the crib notes version is who gets to decide the truth

As someone smarter than me said, there is no truth, only perception. And whatever society we live in, we are never truly insulated from it's influence, are we? Can anyone ever make a truly independent decision? Can we separate the decisions of Pamela Anderson or Paris Hilton from those of a person living on the breadline?

Art, this is a board to discuss feminism, not a board for feminists, so not everyone who posts necessarily agrees with the OP.

Secondly, some feminists (and other people) may believe that porn is wrong but disagree that it equates to violence. So the OP is not the same as saying, "equal pay is a good thing" in terms of universality.

I agree

Disagree with the OP. It's possible to recognise - and oppose - the harmful and exploitative conditions faced by some porn performers without condeming an entire form of entertainment.

And I'm getting tired of this whiny 'no woman can make a free choice under patriarchy' argument as well. SO why don't we all just fucking kill ourselves and have done with it?

Well nobody makes any choice divorced from their social conditioning. However there is nothing wrong with attempting to ensure that social conditioning ensures as many people as possible are able to self actualise their lives to their fullest potential, and just by virtue of being female individuals really shouldn't be handicapped for that.

I think I understand why "no free choice under patriarchy" leads you to a bleak place, although whiny is perhaps a bit combative. However deconstructing social conditioning invites possible solutions, so dialogues like these are well worth having.

Agreed+++. It is naive to ignore the misogyny inherent in the porn industry. The power differential is writ large. All porn results in the subjugation of women ultimately because it is primarily based on male fantasies of how women can be used for sexual gratification e.g. even though the dominatrix is based on a male requirement to be overwhelmed and controlled, the scenario is still dictated by the needs of the male. Women collude with this idea that somehow porn and sex-working are empowering. They can never truly empower women because the roots of porn are driven by the male expectations of women as objects in the sexual fantasy. It doesn't matter how much money a woman makes from it. Money provides some independence but this should not be confused with power.
I wonder how many women in the porn industry would switch jobs if they could make £500 a day in retail??