Guardian article about Lord Rennard

[StormEEweather]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/21/lord-rennard-why-sexual-harassment-matters

I hope that works, my first attempt at a link. Good article though some of the comments are depressingly dim!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/21/lord-rennard-why-sexual-harassment-matters

Try again...

I love Polly Toynbee, she's great. Granted I do listen to some dodgy radio stations but I was at the number of callers this morning suggesting that the women should have been better able to stand up for themselves, just tell him to get stuffed at the time, laugh it off, making a big fuss about nothing blahblahblahblah. Oh and my personal favourite - they must be making it all up for attention Jesus the world is a depressing place some days!

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Rennard's resopnse is purely because he sees absolutely nothing wrong with his behaviour.

Yet another example, if ne were needed. of the way women's bodies are there for public consumption and woe betide any woman who dares to suggest that her body belongs to herself.

I had to button my lip the other day when my (much loved) elderly female relative said (in connection to this and other recent revelations) that "they are trying to ruin good men's lives, in my day you just coped with it, it happened to us all, there is nothing different here"

< sigh >

And you can't help but notice that in many of the articles and comments on this issue, there is an underlying attitude of 'damn and blast these girlies and their 'feelings', they're making the party look bad'.

The pressure for women to silently put up with sexual harassment and assault is outrageous.

(Not in Polly's article though which is ace.)

AF, I find it particularly depressing when this stuff comes from a woman. Why would you not want things to be better for the next generation of female workers, instead of expecting them to put up with the same old crap you did?

It does make me wonder just how we are ever going to make progress on this issue. Women stay silent - they have to suffer alone and the problem gets swept under the carpet. Women speak up - they are creating a massive fuss just to draw attention to themselves, it's hardly a big deal, stop whining, should be able to cope with this in the modern workplace blahblahblah. It's all just so exhausting.

There's also been a complete lack of men refuting this 'way of the world/boys will be boys' theory. If I were a man, I would be ruddy furious at any suggestion that this is how normal men behave.

I'm a man, and I find Lord Rennard's behaviour appalling. Even more so are the actions of the Liberal Democrats, who should have just quietly chucked him the minute the allegations were made.

However, I have no duty to police the behaviour of other men. I can be quietly angry, but I have no right to accuse without judgement. I also have no right to leap patronisingly to the defence of women who have not requested it.

I read this corker of a comment the other day with my jaw on the floor.

there are some sensible ones too thankfully

These women were not raped, were not sexually abused - if every drunken man at an office party was sacked for "inappropriate" behaviour, the jobless figures would be even higher. If every woman subjected to unwanted advances made the fuss these spineless LibDem women made (and how very "Guardianista" that fuss is), bosses would have little time to run their firms or departments.

And yes, I am a woman. Somewhere around the age of 16 I learned how to deal with the likes of Rennard - it's called growing up. However, I am painfully aware that most women who are actually raped and genuinely abused get little help from the law and often little recognition of their suffering from the police. They are the women I worry about, not pampered middle class ambitious LibDems who seem unable to cope with stupid men.

'And yes, I am a woman. Somewhere around the age of 16 I learned how to deal with the likes of Rennard - it's called growing up'

Why, WHY do some women turn on others like this? Why on earth would you blame the woman in that sort of situation, instead of the man who is being inappropriate? I think some people must really believe that men just 'can't help themselves' and we all have to accept it. Dear god, we have all got such a very long way to go

That's how my relative sees it

She got groped in the office, so why should women complain about it now

Cathy Newman (who broke the story)'s article in The Times has loads of detail + is available with no paywall today only apparently : here

ALso did anyone hear Ann Leslie on the radio last night.. dreadful guff about "that's just the way it is and in my day we learned how to put up with it"

I learned to deal with it the 'old days' too - swift stiletto on an instep is surprisingly effective and gives one such a frisson of pleasure.

But that massively misses the point. The point is we shouldn't have to!

So, complain, complain, complain - oh and don't forget, stiletto shoes have their uses even for feminists

The Cathy Newman article is really good too benid thanks for sharing. I never look at the Times due to the paywall.

That is a really interesting article benid. Really explains how immensely powerful Rennard was within the party and how none of the women took going public with these allegations lightly

I luff Cathy Newman. She has the best hair on telly

I only found that article by googling trying to look for actual quotes from Ann Leslie. Cathy Newman rules and her Factchecker blog is ace

Totally agree, WTR

Political parties should have the most robust internal structure and it seems very much not to be the case.

I too am incredulous about how this has been handled and the minimising and dismissive statements being made about this behaviour. It's like nothing has changed since the days of Carry On Harrassing. Are these politicians (and some journalists) so removed from real life that they don't realise this is not acceptable in the workplace? Are we going to discover that they have Page 3 on the walls in MPs' offices?

As depressing as it is to be a feminist sometimes, the change in attitudes towards workplace sexual harassment has been an aspect of women's lives (of all social classes) that has improved massively since the 1970s. Joan Bakewell had an interesting article on that in the Guardian.

It's not clear to me what "charge" Webster was considering from what has been published about the report. It seems possibly to have been a criminal sexual assault rather than workplace harassment. That begs the question as to who set the terms of reference for the investigation and why they chose the terms of reference that led to Webster making findings about Rennard's intent and using the criminal standard of proof. Given that the Met / CPS had already decided not to proceed with the criminal case, there would have been virtually no likelihood of Webster finding there had been a crime committed. Surely this isn't some kind of fudge to try to appease everyone without pissing off the most powerful man in the party?

Did nick clegg really, as polly t states, say the discussion was "shrill"?