Massive feminist rant at my DP - Prego Hormones or warranted ?

[eepie]

Without meaning to 'check up' I saw on my Instagram feed that my DP had 'liked' or 'hearted' or whatever a picture that his friend had taken of a yellow "Slippery surface" sign next to a poster of a blonde girl with see-through vest on, pulling her knickers up/down. I told him I was really disappointed that he'd 'liked' this publicly and that he condoned that sort of imagery (he knows how strongly I feel about the representation of women in the media and about the casual sexual objection of women that is everywhere !) He's not usually blatantly pervy or I didn't think he had that sort of attitude to ogling women. He was raised by a single Mum and is generally not very 'laddish' (or at least has quelled his laddish comments around me which is nice I suppose) but today, at 17 weeks pregnant, seeing that he'd 'liked' this image just made my blood boil ! I felt like he was just a big school boy perve at that point and it was pathetic.

He didn't respond well to me saying I was disappointed to see he'd 'liked' it - he said he just thought the composition was funny and that I should stop being the thought police. I responded by saying that women deserve better than the way they are represented in the media and how they're thought of by men and that I felt very strongly that this image was double sexual objectification - a women pulling her panties down, then a man has taken a picture of that picture, next to a "Slippery Surface" sign - further objectifying her. I said I hated it when men snigger at women as sexual objects and that he is part of the problem if he thinks such a child-ish schoolboy perve image is funny. Obviously because I am pretty pregnant and hormonal and was feeling the pregnancy rage pretty badly at this point, I didn't get my point across in the calmest way, and he was pretty much dismissing my feelings at every turn and saying I was being silly which made my blood boil even more ! He thinks I should be able to just laugh at what is a 'funny image'......So we ended up having a huge row and I basically said "F**k you" and he needs to grow up. I also said that the reason I've ended up so angry and hurt is because he was dismissing my feelings when he knows how strongly I feel about the issue of the female image in the media.

I feel bad about the way the conversation went and how heated my response was....but also I need to have my feelings on this subject respected at least if not completely agreed with...and I want him to seriously think about this subject as I want to pass on healthy and positive attitudes towards women onto our child whether it's a girl or a boy..... How can I communicate this to him ?

yes a baby is a bigger commitment. and all the commitment is from you.

You're the one risking your health by carrying and birthing a child. You're the one who will damage your marketability in the job market by doing so. You're the one whose life will be turned upside down while his will feature some changes but nowhere near those you will experience.

What's his commitment?

AskBasil and laura - I see your point but he knows I want to get married...and he wants me to be happy because he loves me so I'm pretty sure he is going to make that happen at some point in the near future. I am already having his child so I can't really go back and say 'marry me first' at this point....But he values family above all (which I can see in his relationship with his brothers, mum, nephew, SIL's etc) and unless I cheated on him (never going to happen) he'll do everything in his power to make this relationship work because he loves me but also because he wants to have a family with me and be a massively hands on Dad, not a weekend Dad. Being a Dad is, in his own words, one of his greatest dreams. In a previous post I mentioned that I gave up my job as a nanny - it wasn't my career, it was something I was doing for money after I graduated from University because that's what I felt like doing - and now I work part-time as a photo assistant/P.A which is a flexible job that I have the option of continuing, from home, after I've had the baby. He also has flexible working hours as he works for himself so we'll be sharing the childcare as I've already mentioned. His commitment is to raising this child, being a present father and in making a relationship work with it's mother. I think his worst nightmare would be to have to live in a different house or part of the country from his child and not see it, so he wouldn't jeopardise that by cheating on me, or doing anything else that would be a deal-breaker. Bottom line is - he wants what I want....we've just had a lot of upheaval in the past 6 months and he hasn't actually popped the question yet, although we have discussed it. I can't rush him to propose to me, nor do I want to. I don't want to start a marriage feeling like I've forced my husband into it.

And about risking my health....Has it somewhere got lost in translation that I wanted this baby ? I don't feel I'm risking my life and health to give birth to a baby - it's a natural thing that I am doing willingly. It was my choice to let him have unprotected sex with me, with the intention of making a life....I wanted to be pregnant with his baby. I understand that having a baby will change my life forever but with him helping with child care, his Mum just around the corner willing to help with childcare too, and with my age (25) it doesn't really rule out me having a career for a large chunk of my life, if I don't want it to.

Oh good grief. Enough of the soppy bollocks and do some research. You sound unbelievably naïve.

I'm off.

K8Middleton - I'm really sorry if you've been hurt and let down by a man in your life and it's sad that you think I'm naive for thinking that my DP will do the best by me and our child. I think you sound unbelievably cynical - if I entered my relationship with the fear that I'm going to get screwed over financially and left hung out to dry then I don't think we'd have got as far as him wanting to have a baby with me or marry me at all. We've got to this point by loving each other and wanting to make a life together. I'm not in an unequal partnership where he treats me like shit and I do everything for him, I don't know if you think that's the entire sum of our relationship but it is possible for me to get a bit pissed off and angry at my DP and rant about it on Mumsnet without it meaning I need to lock him down into marriage ASAP because he sounds like the sort of bastard who's going to screw over a woman in "the end". Christ ! People in relationships who live together 24/7 and go through difficult life events together fight sometimes and have differences of opinion and piss each other off. Big deal. It doesn't mean I need to get the lawyers on him pronto, tie him to a chair and force him to shove a ring on my finger and sign my name onto the deeds of his house ! I don't quite know how this thread has got onto all this but it's pretty over dramatic considering what my OP was about. I've had a hell of a lot more healthy and helpful responses from previous posters and have already worked my original issue out and resolved it in my eyes so I don't really see the relevance in you continuing in this thread anyway.

I think I will not research the way in which I may or may not get screwed over and work myself into a frenzy of worry and 'what if''s but just get on with my pregnancy and my relationship thanks.

I don't think being full of fear is a good basis for your viewpoint on men or on my DP who you don't know. He could propose to me next month, who are you to tell me that he's not going to do that? And even if he's not, I'm not going to be left any worse off than before I met him....I'll have a beautiful baby which is something I've wanted dearly for a long time.

And for christ's sake since when does a woman have to be married to a man in order to have a baby and a successful relationship with him... ????

No one has said you need to be married to have a good relationship. But it's pretty unusual for a woman to be left by the father of her children and say 'Yep, this is what I expected when I was ttc.' And I'm not sure why you think a wanted pregnancy is less likely to result in eclampsia/gestational diabetes/spd/any other risk health risk.

If marriage has to be romantic for you maybe look at it as signing a legal document that protects your dc from the impact of inheritance tax, and think of the wedding/commitment ceremony as something separate.

I'm really sorry if you've been hurt and let down by a man in your life and it's sad that you think I'm naive for thinking that my DP will do the best by me and our child.

:o

Enjoy your life with the sexist twat.

I look forward to reading your future posts when you are 5 years down the line with more children, have no money of your own, no security for your children, and you aren't living up to his notions of how women should be.

I've not been let down by a man (yet) thanks :) But if I were, I have covered my arse and my children's even though I don't think my partner would ever screw me over. It helps I picked a feminist instead of a sexist twat.

I wonder if your disproportionate response indicates I have hit a nerve?

OP, I know life has been really overwhelming with the loss of your friend, moving house, moving job and getting pregnant. Just concerned that you make sure you and your baby are protected in all scenarios, whether that's death, illness, splitting up etc. Plan for the best but be prepared for the worst is a good motto.

Hope your dad has some good advice. Citizens Advice Bureau can also be helpful with the ins and outs.

Why the misplaced anger Op?

I still don't know what actual concrete commitment this man has given you.

The power balance in your relationship changed as soon as you became pregnant with this man's child. It will change even more once you actually give birth to that child.

What has he actually given you in return? Your name on the mortgage? How has he protected the interests of his unborn child and the mother of his child if he were to get hit by a bus tomorrow?

Well this thread took a strange turn for sure.

eepie - I think you know your DP and I don't think by the sound of things you are the sort of woman who is going to let yourself be a doormat and you clearly haven't been so far. It sounds like he normally pulls his weight and basically you like him and if he was sexist twunt you would not be with him

That said, I think that probably like most men it really has not dawned on him he is about to become a farther. Yes I know he knows conceptually but not in any real sense. Men generally don't until an actual living baby gets plonked in their arms. I didn't but when it did happen - well everything changed for ever. I didn't realise how mentally unprepared for it I really was. I mean I was doing all the housework, being supportive, reading the baby books, going with DW to appointment with midwife/hospital, shopping for stuff at Mothercare, constructing cots and even bought plastic sheets at Homebase to protect the bed - but that's not what I mean.

On the mortgage and wills and security issue if he dies and all the financial stuff (e.g. life insurance) and making sure you and teh baby are cared for, well just don't think he has even thought about it. Getting married gives you a lot more security and I do personally think it is best if people are going to have children but lots of people don't and good marriages are not made at the alter or in a Registry Office. Its just the law gives better protection if you are married and absolutely you need a Will and proper financial arrangements in place before teh bay is born - whether married or not. Don't accept to be guarantor on his debts though - either explicitly or by accident.

You need to have a proper sit down discussion about a lot of things as you have had a heck of a year personally and there is a lot to sort out.

You both need to make some proper plans together and actually he needs to 'man up' or 'grow up' a bit as well. I think that may well happen once the baby is born anyway but he needs to start thinking about you, the baby and the future now.

I'm really sorry if you've been hurt and let down by a man in your life and it's sad that you think I'm naive for thinking that my DP will do the best by me and our child. I think you sound unbelievably cynical - if I entered my relationship with the fear that I'm going to get screwed over financially and left hung out to dry then I don't think we'd have got as far as him wanting to have a baby with me or marry me at all. We've got to this point by loving each other and wanting to make a life together.

and yet... he wants a prenup. For his house. 6 years of paying in to a house is nothing he probably has another 24 years of paying it off. Of you both paying it off. Even if you are a sahp, you are supporting him to make money to pay off his house. He can say "whats mine is yours" all he likes. BUt he doesn't mean it.

And just because you wanted the baby doesn't mean you should downplay what goes in to making a child. And that the risks and burdens are all undertaken by you. Your partner shouldn't either.

I woudl suggest getting married and soon. The "romance" of it all is no reason to ignore the practical side of what a marriage does for you legally.

Yes

The pre-nup.

Alarm bells should frankly be deafening.

He hasn't thought enough about the future to secure his child and the mother of his child, but he has thought about a pre-nup.

So he's not totally oblivious, is he?

Something is not quite right here.

Thanks MoreBeta and TheDoctrineofSnatch for your balanced and reasonable responses - has cheered me up that you guys can see the situation for what it is rather than an enormous detective drama.

MoreBeta I think you're right, he hasn't really thought a whole lot about how much the baby changes things legally and financially and future-planning wise. An awful lot of his friends are unmarried with children and I doubt very much that any of them have sat him down and said "You know you have to make a will when you have a kid right?" The only facts that he's so far internalised is that in 5 months we will have a tiny baby human living with us (quite an abstract concept for him still considering I'm not properly showing yet and he can't feel it move like I can) and also that starting NOW he needs to make more money as we don't have 2 full-time incomes coming into the house anymore, yet the same outgoings.

For all those fretting about the pre-nup - it was suggested to him by his Mum, who I mentioned before is a very opinionated lady and has a pretty strong influence on him as she raised him single-handedly, cue you all telling me how my MIL is going to make my life hell & how you can't believe how at 4 months pregnant I still I haven't thought about & executed a plan to kill her and how soppy and naive that makes me

The reason she suggested this pre-nup is that it is basically her money, a gift to him, that has gone into the house. She came into a lot of money a few years ago after having been dirt poor for most of her life and she used chunks of that money to help her sons buy houses in London. She has put a sizeable chunk of capital into the house and therefore they have a relatively small mortgage on the property. As I understand it, my DP, having been on an average to low irregular income, has just been paying off the interest on the mortgage for the last 5 years and using the rest of his income for household bills, food and just living in general/paying off debts he racked up as a student whilst having the house as a secure base. Also the house has been increasing in value a lot over the last 5 years as it's in a really up and coming area of London. Basically - he's been very lucky to have this house and it's all down to his Mum - she has seen/heard of many stories of a woman divorcing a man and taking half of his house after having only been with him for a few years and so she mentioned to him a while ago now, I'm sure, that he should never let that happen to him and suggested a pre-nup for whoever his future wife may be. Since I got pregnant he hasn't asked me for a penny of 'rent' or money towards bills and has even been reluctant to take money from me for half the new sofa, half the pram etc as he feels he should be able to pay for all these things himself but I have wanted to give him the money as I wanted to, and was on a full-time salary at the time. The money that I've been saving on 'rent' I have put into my savings account and he's been encouraging when I mentioned I might want to use it to go on a pre-baby holiday with my best friends.

I am going to engineer us sitting down and having a talk about me paying into the mortgage in the future - or what we're planning to do with the house in the future and how we're planning to pay off what the bank owns of the house...and I'm not going to pay any money into the mortgage until it's all clear and fair. I don't even know if there's going to be much substantial income coming from me in the next year or so - I'm working part-time and so my contribution to the household is very minimal. My contribution to raising his child is going to be substantial of course but it's all very complicated and something I know I need to take advice on and consider. But I'm just not looking at it as an urgent priority at 4 months pregnant.

I'm actually done with trying to convince you guys that he's not a total evil bastard..... I appreciate the concern...kind of ! But it's all a bit much and largely unsolicited considering my OP. He may have bad parts or bad moments in how he behaves/his attitude but he is largely and fundamentally a good guy who puts family first and is loving and supportive. No-one's perfect and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't thousands of marriages/relationships out there where the woman has been exasperated and pissed off with her man as I was in my OP, but that doesn't mean that he's an evil bastard to the core.

I am having a weird atavistic thought that it is almost a pity, in this day and age, that we are so autonomous as adults that we don't have anyone to play bad cop for us - we have to do it ourselves.

I think a person in Eepie's position is right to build a life on love and trust. How can building a life on suspicion be successful? - but someone standing behind her should meanwhile be putting things in place to protect her. as her dp's mother is by talking about a pre-nup on the house.

(which I doubt would be legally binding when it comes to it, if they married and had children, but I am no expert)

Eepie, I have two children and am not married to their father, through choice on my part, and I wish I was. a horrible inches-from-fatal car accident has put all this into perspective recently. I am not sure how to go about getting married when I don't even seem to have time to floss my teeth so if I were you, you think you want to get married if I understand correctly, and so does he, I would do it now. About the pre-nup - just laugh. He can't be serious, if he is the man you say he is.

eepie - I am also fairly sure a pre-nup would be set aside after a decent amount of time in the marriage or if a child is born.

It may carry weight if a 'gold digger' marries someone for a year or so and then walks out childless but claims half the assets. However, after long years of marriage and with a child involved living in the family home under an English law that pre-nup would carry little weight.

Increasingly, English Law recognises the contribution of the woman to the marriage in terms of giving up a career to look after children while (typically) the husband builds a successful business or a well paid career. That is why London law courts have become the destination of choice for wives looking to divorce wealthy men.

I also don't think a court would overturn a Will if it were written by a DP/DH giving his DP/DW the family home to live in after he dies with their child. I really don't think a court would turn a mother and child out of their home if the spouse had signed the Will voluntarily - even if the home was a 'gift' from a MIL that wanted to reclaim it.

At the very least a Will that specifies you gain exclusive ownership of the house on death of your DP is a good start. If he is not willing to do that now and also put in place a simple cheap life assurance policy (i.e one that only pays out on death and has no other investment benefits) then I take back what I said above.

If he really cares about you then he should want to put that protection in place. It one of the few things I really worry a lot about - what if I die and my wife is left with our children? I have a complicated Will and a life assurance policy in place that would allow my wife to live without having to work and care for our children as well as pay for higher education and give them a small lump sum to get a bit of a start in life when they leave university/college.

Eepie if you're right about your DP, and he just hasn't thought if the implications for you and your baby should something happen to him, then when you talk to him about it he will immediately arrange to put your name on the deeds or propose to you. After all if he loves you, he will do everything to protect you and your child.