Massive feminist rant at my DP - Prego Hormones or warranted ?

[eepie]

Without meaning to 'check up' I saw on my Instagram feed that my DP had 'liked' or 'hearted' or whatever a picture that his friend had taken of a yellow "Slippery surface" sign next to a poster of a blonde girl with see-through vest on, pulling her knickers up/down. I told him I was really disappointed that he'd 'liked' this publicly and that he condoned that sort of imagery (he knows how strongly I feel about the representation of women in the media and about the casual sexual objection of women that is everywhere !) He's not usually blatantly pervy or I didn't think he had that sort of attitude to ogling women. He was raised by a single Mum and is generally not very 'laddish' (or at least has quelled his laddish comments around me which is nice I suppose) but today, at 17 weeks pregnant, seeing that he'd 'liked' this image just made my blood boil ! I felt like he was just a big school boy perve at that point and it was pathetic.

He didn't respond well to me saying I was disappointed to see he'd 'liked' it - he said he just thought the composition was funny and that I should stop being the thought police. I responded by saying that women deserve better than the way they are represented in the media and how they're thought of by men and that I felt very strongly that this image was double sexual objectification - a women pulling her panties down, then a man has taken a picture of that picture, next to a "Slippery Surface" sign - further objectifying her. I said I hated it when men snigger at women as sexual objects and that he is part of the problem if he thinks such a child-ish schoolboy perve image is funny. Obviously because I am pretty pregnant and hormonal and was feeling the pregnancy rage pretty badly at this point, I didn't get my point across in the calmest way, and he was pretty much dismissing my feelings at every turn and saying I was being silly which made my blood boil even more ! He thinks I should be able to just laugh at what is a 'funny image'......So we ended up having a huge row and I basically said "F**k you" and he needs to grow up. I also said that the reason I've ended up so angry and hurt is because he was dismissing my feelings when he knows how strongly I feel about the issue of the female image in the media.

I feel bad about the way the conversation went and how heated my response was....but also I need to have my feelings on this subject respected at least if not completely agreed with...and I want him to seriously think about this subject as I want to pass on healthy and positive attitudes towards women onto our child whether it's a girl or a boy..... How can I communicate this to him ?

hmm mostwicked if your partner felt the need to like racist pics on the internet would you be allowed to be upset with it?

Op he sounds like a knob. LTB

eepie - your post at 15.03 rings a lot of bells.

I am a man by the way if you didn't already know and I posted because I had an inkling of what was going on as my relationship with my mother was very similar to what you describe.

To a large extent and in many aspects my relationship with my wife is coloured by it. I am fairly sure your DP loves you on a level he can't explain properly. He loves you because of this:

"...the rock, doing a lot of work inside and outside of the home, never being vulnerable etc which has been really hard for me as although I am very independent (have supported myself pretty much 100% financially since I moved out of home when I was 17, have always worked, not shied away from hard work eg nannying, cleaning jobs if I had to).."

My wife is very very similar. In our early days, I struggled when she was suddenly vulnerable/emotional because that wasn't the person she normally was. However, we had a long relationship before children, then my wife became extremely ill to the point I genuinely believed she would die. I learned to deal with that vulnerability before we eventually had children. Your DP hasn't had that kind of experience yet. He can change.

I suggest that once this has all blown over you try and explore how DP feels when you express emotion or are vulnerable. Let him talk, don't shout at each other. The 'like' picture thing is just daft behaviour that will not be repeated. The other stuff is important:

'.. but the majority of the time I feel it really irritates him and disturbs him when he sees me being emotional or irrational and needing to be comforted or reassured' ... is him struggling outside any experience he has had of a woman he is close to.

My mother never expressed emotion to me and not very much to my father. She had made herself invulnerable as she was brought up by a single woman herself. She did hard physical work every day of her life. There wasn't room for 'soft stuff' but I know now she suffered depression and just covered it up. She brought me and my sisters up to behave the same way. She used to get annoyed if we were ill or upset. I suspect your DP is the same.

I'm blathering on and I'm not saying you should just accept the way your DP is but he is being the way he is for a reason. Try to get him to recognise that and talk about it.

He even said "Couldn't you just have rolled your eyes...no need for a shitstorm!

He's a total cock.

He thinks women should just roll their eyes in the face of ugly, objectifying sexism.

Good luck changing this wanker when you have a baby to look after and he knows he has you over a barrel.

TheDoctrine -- no it's his mortgage, he owns the house, not me. And I have heard of being a nanny with own child..and I've seen people do it and ...No...just no. There are so many reasons why that wouldn't work for me and why I wouldn't want to do that. But thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Thank you so much MoreBeta..... you're completely right...what you've said sounds identical to his Mum and how she is...she has suffered from depression as an older lady and now goes to therapy regularly. My DP also went to therapy regularly until just before me and him got together... so he has done a lot of self work but not in the context of being this close with a woman and being in this domestic/fatherhood role that is all new to him. I think it'd really benefit us to go to counselling together at some point, but I also believe that him just living with me and learning what it means to be in this sort of serious, close and intimate relationship with a woman means will give him a slow reality check as to what's really normal in a relationship ! Your message gives me hope that he can change/realise that his reaction is not healthy and that it is damaging to us at times.

Fair enough about NWOC!

Since you are having a child together, what are your plans for the mortgage/finances going forwards? Have you got wills/life insurance in favour of each other sorted?

they had very fixed ideas of their own about what women were for

This.

When you disappoint, how do you think he is going to respond?

Think about his friendships, and how he talks about previous girlfriends.

TheDoctrine we haven't really talked about that yet although he's mentioned things along the lines of 'what's mine is yours...all our money is the same now anyway' he wouldn't expect me to help him pay off debts that he's still paying off now from before we together....but when I was working full-time before I got pregnant I gave him £300/month as 'rent' and we went halves (sort of) on food - sometimes I paid, sometimes he paid. He paid the house bills. I paid my own mobile phone bill and everything that I needed - clothes, toiletries, going out with my friends. We'd often split dinner out and he'd often pay for dinner out himself and not want me to give him any money. He's said he doesn't feel that everything needs to be split down the middle and he's happy/wants to pay more sometimes...but I usually give him half the money ie. for holidays, new sofa, when we bought the baby's pram etc. because at the time I could and I wanted to be equal.

Having said that.....we are not married so maybe we do need to make wills when the baby is born? As otherwise if something happened the house would go to his Mum or his brothers if she was not alive.. I suppose? He mentioned ages ago that if we got married would I sign a pre-nup regarding the house as it's the only asset he has, his Mum helped him with the deposit for it and I think he's scared that if I left him then he'd be left with no house. But I think if it came to this, I'd have to have a serious think about what this would mean for me....because I live with him and am raising his child, I don't really have a chance to buy a house that's 'ours' with him together and therefore have my own share in a house....but also maybe I wouldn't have that chance anyway considering the state of the economy ?! And also I won't pay money towards the mortgage if I'm not going to own any of the house, that's kind of weird......

Ok, I think you should be on the mortgage/deeds and frankly I'm not certain a pre-nup if that nature would be enforceable anyway.

If MIL needs her deposit back sometime you can look into a side agreement with her about repaying it from proceeds (though take legal advice regarding any impact on the mortgage).

If you both believe in marriage and see that in your future, is there a reason you aren't contemplating it now? Unromantic of me, but marriage is about security for the future as well as love and companionship!

Do you have a joint account that you can use whilst on maternity leave?

Gosh, it's looking worse and worse. never mind his general conduct you need to get on with these legal and financial issues. If he dies or leaves you are homeless. You are not married.

Pre nups are not always enforceable and anyway he hasn't proposed and probably feels more secure unmarried which is correct as he is the one with the house not you. If you split up he keeps the house. Might be wuise once you get back to full time work in due course to buy a small flat as your own security and let it out.

I think this may be the wrong board for my response but you did overreacted, not in the sense of your views but making a big deal of what your husband, an adult , chooses as is his is right , to respond to what he wants on the internet.
I understand you're pregnant, I can remember how quick tempered I used to be too and hot headed, so I think he should have not laughed at you.
But If my husband had behaved toward me in the way you did I would I would not be happy.

*overreact.

If you were a black woman married to a white man and said man "liked" a picture of nigel Farage, would it be reasonable to "make a big deal of this"?

HowlingTrap I'm sorry but I agree with The Doctrine ..... it's acceptable for him as his 'adult choice' to 'laugh at' or 'like' a sexist picture but it wouldn't be if it was a racist picture...? I don't know many people who would defend a man's right to objectify women and be sexist. He obviously didn't think I would see it and he didn't put much thought into it but I reserve the right to challenge the man I'm in a relationship with if his behaviour or views are sexist and offend me. If he went to a prostitute would you also encourage me to respect his choices as an adult ? After all we're not married and it wouldn't be adultery. But that doesn't mean it's ok to support the sex industry and exploitation of women.

I don't think you can compare the 2 racism/prostitution to this, he didn't upload the image.

Doctrine and Laura we have talked about marriage - he asked me in the summer if we could start trying for a baby and I said to him that I'd like to get engaged first... if not married straight away (we can't afford a wedding right now and would want to do it properly, not a big white wedding but at least the basics and be able to have all our friends and family there as a celebration and food, drink, dress, special venue etc.) He basically said yes he wants to marry me without actually having proposed officially. I made it clear I would like him to propose officially and properly as the romance of it is very important to me ! He agreed and said of course he will do it in a special way .....I've not mentioned it again since then (That was in June) as I want to leave it in his hands and be surprised - but then since then we've had a lot going on with me moving in with him, then one of my best friends dying in a car crash a few weeks after I moved in, then a few months after that, me falling pregnant ! We were trying as we thought it'd take ages to conceive and having kids together was something we both really wanted sooner rather than later....But it happened sooner than we thought !
He's also said that having a baby to him is more than being married in terms of commitment and how long it means we'll be together..... And I've mentioned a few times that I want to have the same last name as my child, eventually (and the baby will take his last name as mine is crap and I'm not attached to it !!)

also Doctrine - why do you think I need to be on the deeds/mortgage ? I've never thought of that... But interested to know why I should start thinking about it. Also if he died I can't see my MIL chucking me and her grandchild out of the house ! But yes if we broke up...I'd be homeless with the child. I don't in any way think he'd leave us high and dry though. And I can't see us breaking up, having been through so much together and we are just getting stronger and stronger...even though we've been fighting a bit. We've had so many changes this year and things that are not easy to deal with.

Also Laura that's a nice idea but there's no way I'd be able to buy my own flat in London any time soon, full-time work or not, I'm 25 years old, have virtually no savings and have not exactly been in high-powered, well paid jobs so far. I've been working as a nanny as I mentioned and have been supporting myself since I was 17, most of that time living in London and at Uni or on a low-wage so unable to save. And there's no way my DP would have been able to buy his house without his Mum's help either which is I think why the pre-nup thing was mentioned....without this house he would have nothing as well so not surprised he doesn't like the idea of losing it or having to sell it and give me half the money if I decided to leave him.

It's a security thing, OP - if you are on the deeds then you have an official position. If you are paying rent, you are helping pay down the mortgage.

I'm sure MIL is very nice but you shouldn't be reliant on someone's good will in a situation like that, plus depending on the mortgage/insurance/inheritance tax situation, she may have to sell it. If you two are married, you can transfer assets free of inheritance tax.

I agree that having a baby is a longer term commitment than marriage so the marriage (or at least the legal protections like wills and insurance) are even more important! I personally would have got married to DP earlier if I'd got pregnant before we were married, IYSWIM, just to make things official.

Would you want to get married before you have the baby - could do something small then have a lovely party/combined christening and blessing in due course? or is the romance part too important to you?

I'm really sorry about your friend, you've had a lot to deal with.

thedoctrine - thanks..yes I suppose I have, a lot of upheaval. But so excited about the baby...and the baby's due date is the day that my friend died. Strange.
Ok I'll have a talk to my Dad about the legal/financial stuff as he's so good at that kind of thing and can give me advice or point me in the right direction. And maybe worth bringing up as a preliminary conversation with my DP, whilst gently reminding him of how important it is to me to be married in the near future. I think I'd not like to get married before baby is born...the romance and occasion of it all is v important to me, I suppose. I wouldn't want to rush it either I don't think. Plus I'd like to be a bit settled before ... so much upheaval as I said in the last half a year..and more to come with baby coming into our lives...I'd really like it to be something we're doing because we love each other and it's the right time, as well as wanting to make things secure for our little family and for us all to have the same last name IYSWIM. I would like it to be in the near future though yes.

That all sounds good, OP.

The posters in Legal Matters are very knowledgeable if you have specific questions. Mumblechum (I think) is an MNer who has an advert on here somewhere for her will service - I haven't used her but other MNers have.

Romance? I don't understand this. You hang your hat on the feminist issue of the negative portrayal of women in the media, yet you are waiting for a man to propose, relying on his good will and not securing your and your baby's future?

Read almost any thread in relationships and you will see woman after woman who believed their partner was a good man behave appallingly. You need to take responsibility for making a safety net if things go wrong. Doing that doss not no harm if you have a good man.

I would't marry him yet but I would want wills, house and as much legal stuff as possible sorted out long before the baby comes. You are tied to him by that baby. Presumably you will be taking the lion's share of the childcare? Taking maternity leave? He needs to demonstrate how he is going to equal that commitment to your relationship and how he intends to contribute.

they had very fixed ideas of their own about what women were for

This.

When you disappoint, how do you think he is going to respond?

Think about his friendships, and how he talks about previous girlfriends.

Very convenient of him not to propose which means you don't have a leg to stand on legally in terms of any claims on his assets or maintenance from him if you split up (although he would have to pay a percentage of his after tax income for the child).I am not saying women should take money from men on divorce or in marriage actually. I think they should earn their own but you are awfully exposed because you moved in before getting that wedding ring on your finger.

You wouldn't have to buy a property in London. You could pick somewhere cheaper like Leeds and once you are back at work get a mortgage a buy to let one on the basis of your salary once you had saved a deposit just so you have some kind of asset building up in your name.

Laura, given the OP was a nanny and is now a photographer's assistant, I think it would be better for her to pay towards the current mortgage and have her name registered on the deeds accordingly. Saving the larger deposit required for BTL whilst still paying bills where she is living seems inefficient.

I can't believe you bought that obvious crap about how he'd stay with you for longer if you had a baby for him without taking any steps to protect yourself financially.

JoinYourPlayfellows I don't know how rich you think my DP is but even if we got married, then got divorced and I got half of the capital he had in his house, I'd still not be financially secure or protected for life. Why do you think I deserve to have any of the money that he put into his house 6 years ago before he even knew me, just because I am having a baby with him (which isn't even born yet).....I'm not a surrogate so he can have a child - I really want to have this baby and raise this child with him because I love him and want to share my life and journey into becoming a parent with him. I'm just genuinely confused about how much you think I'm going to get screwed over if this relationship ends before we get married? I had no assets to begin with anyway before I met him.

It's more that you may be giving up a nanny career earning say £20k to £30k a year to bring up the baby without the security of marriage, that's all. If he virtually has no capital and the house won't really go up in value when you are home bringing up the children and any capital is probably a loan from his mother then I agree that sharing assets does not matter although he might have life insurance. Make sure he writes that in trust for you.

If you were married and you spilt and had given up work to care for his child then you would receive monthly maintenance from him after the split. If you aren't married you just get it for the child and cannot claim any of this assets or the house. if you were married and there were not much capital it is likely you and the child would get the house and he'd have to leave whilst supporting you all until the child is 18 or you remarry. I fyou aren't married you have no such rights.