Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

Original poster

Really quite annoyed by DD's homework

24 replies

Lovecat · 09/01/2014 23:59

She was given a numerical table that had subjects going along the top and then the categories of 'boys' and 'girls' down the side, with numbers against each to show preferences for subject - the homework was to answer questions about the table, ie how many more girls than boys liked subject x and which subject did half as many boys like than girls, if that makes any sense...

Anyway, the subjects were Maths, Science, Art and ICT.

In all categories but Art, boys liked the subject more than girls.

Is it me, or is this just shite? I mean, they could have done the homework on ice-cream flavours or something and it would have served the same purpose, so why this crap about boys liking maths, science and ICT more than girls?? This unthinking bollocks really winds me up!

I have written 'rather sexist!' alongside her answer sheet. The teacher's going to love me, isn't she... :o

OP posts:

GiraffesAndButterflies · 10/01/2014 00:06

It's very common to use subject preferences /aptitudes for exam questions, but normally they take care to mix it up a bit better than that! Yanbu, I would be annoyed too.

Princessdeb · 10/01/2014 00:12

Dear OP,
I would be fuming! There is a massive issue with girls very quickly getting the idea that it is not cool to like STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) or that they won't be good at it.
I noticed this with my DD when she was in year 1! I always asked her what she had done at school that day and she would say in a really fed up voice "maths". This really alarmed so I changed the question and asked her what was the favourite thing she had done. Instant change, enthusiastic "maths!" From then on we made a real effort to highlight maths as something that was great fun and she was good at. When we saw the teacher at the end of the year she was delighted not just with DD's progress but also at her consistently positive attitude to it. She commented that already she was worrying about the attitude towards maths of a significant number of the girls in the class.
The fact that a sexist piece of work has arrived from school reinforcing the idea that girls don't like/ aren't good at STEM subjects is alarming. I personally would speak directly to the HT about this. If no one in the staff picked up and challenged this piece of work that attitude might be a bit more common in the school than they are aware of.

BOFalicious · 10/01/2014 00:19

I agree with Princess - its worth flagging.

AskBasil · 10/01/2014 00:23

There is research that shows that when girls were asked to fill in their gender on a maths exam form, they got lower marks than when they weren't.

The very act of reminding them that they aren't supposed to be good at maths, made them less good at it.

It is depressing that the people educating our children are so blissfully ignorant about this stuff.

PicklePicklePickle · 10/01/2014 00:24

I don't think this would even register with me....maybe I am a bit dim.

My dd is amazing at maths, she really enjoys it and regularly sits and does sums off her own back. I have never even thought it was a boys subject.

Just be secure in how you raise your kids. I am sure if that is your opinion they are already aware that the world is their oyster regardless of their gender. :)

BadgerBumBag · 10/01/2014 00:24

Definitely flag it! We work so hard to fight these boxes and then it is reinforced by the school. I would be fuming

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 10/01/2014 00:26

OP i would have gone further than written 'rather sexist' as that doesnt clearly explain the issue. I would write a note explaining exactly why it is an issue.

BOFalicious · 10/01/2014 00:39

Pickle, my daughter is a real Maths and science whizz, despite the fact that her homework has been beyond me since she was about nine .

The fact is though, our girls are battling against type to excel in these subjects- which, incidentally, tend to lead to the more highly-paid professions- and even though some individual girls do battle through, the point is that they aren't being encouraged as much as they could be, which lets a lot of potentially brilliant scientists and mathematicians slip through the net.

Our kids choose their options at 14 or thereabouts, and start narrowing their opportunities. It's really important that they aren't constrained by gender expectations and peer pressure when they are at exactly the age when they are most vulnerable to conformism.

EBearhug · 10/01/2014 00:48

I'd be raging at them. Well, okay, maybe not raging, but I would certainly be telling them to read up on stereotype threat and telling them why I didn't feel it was right to be using examples like that.

I'd probably also be pointing out I am a woman working in IT and a Stemnet ambassador, and clearly they need someone to come in and talk about careers in IT or something. Plus my grandmother taught maths and physics and my aunt taught chemistry, so I never had any of that nonsense about girls not being so good at maths and sciences.

Although I might wait after my initial draft and then edit it so it's more constructive and less inflammatory.

You should definitely raise it, though.

sashh · 10/01/2014 06:09

I'd be asking them their policy on equality and diversity and why they don't embed this in the curriculum.

Point out that they are indirectly discriminating and that is illegal.

Anatanacoat · 10/01/2014 07:07

Oh do complain! I work in a field that is only 1.9% female and this shit is why.

EdithWeston · 10/01/2014 07:19

I would be annoyed by this.

If they have to use a table where one group needs to be associated with more in all but one category, perhaps they could use totally different types of groups - perhaps form 5A children and form 5B children and preferences like ice cream flavour as suggested above, or colour of parents car (including a no car option).

Original poster

Lovecat · 10/01/2014 11:30

Saw the teacher this morning by chance so I asked her about it.

She said that the book it was taken from is a current one (!) and it had 'slipped past her'. She then went into a spiel about how all the girls in the class certainly love science and maths (really? All of them?) so they can see past a homework question - I replied that since we live in a society where all the underlying messages around them are that science and maths are things for men, I really don't expect to have to fight that perception in school when doing a homework question.

I suspect I have now been written off as a mad parent... (she's only been in the job 4 days).

OP posts:

Original poster

Lovecat · 10/01/2014 11:31

Thanks to all who replied, btw - sometimes I wonder if I'm being OTT (actually I know I'm not, but I often get treated like I am when it comes to feminism, so it does make you second guess yourself!)

OP posts:

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 10/01/2014 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NiceTabard · 10/01/2014 18:53

I think you were right to raise it. Definitely

How is this stuff making it into textbooks and classrooms for crying out loud. I just don't understand it.

DadWasHere · 10/01/2014 19:33

Hrmmm. I wonder how much of the chart parallels reality in schools, in subjects where specific subject choice is allowed and not mandatory? My daughter was the only girl in her high technology class of 30. She was 1 of 3 girls in a more general technology class. This year, going into computer programming, she will be 1 of 2 girls in class.

How many girls will be in her Physics and Advanced Math classes- I don't know yet. Hrmmm. My eldest daughter did art at high school, I will ask her the gender make up of the class later.

Serious questions, if the chart you saw parallels reality of subject choice is it sexist? Is it more legitimate, if in being corrected, it becomes an inaccurate representation of reality?

NiceTabard · 10/01/2014 19:40

In a sexist society it's not a real "choice" though is it.

There is no excuse for impressing on young primary school children (from the description I would imagine that the OPs child is about 5) that some subjects are ones that boys like and some subjects girls like.

I would NEVER say to my young children "ah well boys like maths, science and IT, and girls like art". I mean, WTF, come on.

NiceTabard · 10/01/2014 19:43

The graph also shows that boys enjoy school more, and are more engaged than girls, given that they like many more subjects more than girls.

Is that an acceptable message either? I think not.

JonSnowKnowsNothing · 10/01/2014 19:45

It would piss me off too.
When I create resources for homework or classwork I go out of my way to avoid negative messages like this. I'm still annoyed that for the 3rd consecutive year I have NO girls likely to achieve level 6 Maths!

scaevola · 10/01/2014 19:52

"Serious questions, if the chart you saw parallels reality of subject choice is it sexist? Is it more legitimate, if in being corrected, it becomes an inaccurate representation of reality?"

It may be a serious question, but I'mmnot sure it's a relevant question. OP is describing primary maths. There are no subject options; everyone in the school is following the same curriculum. This is a time when opinions are formed. That is why it is harmful to send messages that boys dominate certain subjects.

KaseyM · 10/01/2014 19:54

DadWasHere - it's not so much a sexism as a complete lack of awareness of the issues surrounding children and their developing self-confidence.

Gender-priming is notorious for causing stereotype threat amongst girls when it comes to Maths and Science. The more they are reminded of the stereotypes that go with their gender the worse they perform in those subjects.

Imagine the class discussion that might follow the results of these findings. A child will be standing at the front of the class saying stuff like "Boys are twice as likely to prefer Maths than girls are" whilst "Girls are twice as likely to prefer Art than girls are" and all the children will be listening, taking it in. That's gender-priming at its finest.

EBearhug · 10/01/2014 21:41

This other thread (and the article it links to) is very relevant to this thread, too.

GiraffesAndButterflies · 11/01/2014 03:46

Serious questions, if the chart you saw parallels reality of subject choice is it sexist? Is it more legitimate, if in being corrected, it becomes an inaccurate representation of reality?

A) in this case yes, because the subject choices are the result of subtle sexist indoctrination like this chart. So it's a vicious cycle unless something is done to break it.
B) yes, assuming you think it's 'more legitimate' to portray something realistically but without real life's sexism. Particularly in this context, as exam questions are deliberately chosen to represent a fairly happy state of affairs, eg you don't tend to see half the fictional 'class' dropping out part way through their course.

Flip