why are childlesd women treated so badly?

[midnight100]

I am childless and before you think I'm a child hater or something, I love kids, have worked with kids as and really want to have children as soon as I meet the right person.
As a childless women I fell like I don't matter and am not a real women, everything is about mothers, they get so much regonition. They should get regonition, but i feel like other people don't get enough regonition like carers because of all the regonition, like that Sma advert , you're doing great and that asda advent we had last year with the mum doing Lindsay Christmas. Wow thanks asda its such a relief to no as a childless single women there's nothing I need to do for Christmas.

How does it go?

If you're a woman and you don't have kids, you're unnatural
If you're a woman and you have kids and go back to work, you're uncaring
And if you're a woman and you have kids and don't go back to work, you've wasted your education.

(Rough paraphrase of a Hillary Clinton quote I once heard. The "if you're a woman, you're screwed whatever" is silent)

Yes, a mother's place is in the wrong, and a woman's place is in the wrong too!

I agree that it's not entirely true to say people with children 'have' to cook, or put up Christmas decorations, or whatever.

But actually, there is a difference, isn't there? At the extreme end, if I as a childless woman choose to spend all my money down the offie and buy chips for tea every night while they cut off my heating for non-payment, actually, I can. If I did that and had kids, they would eventually be taken away from me.

The other issue is - obviously, yes, childless people can be carers and it can be tough. But doesn't it just become more difficult if you have children in the picture too? What if you have children and an elderly relative? You can't just say 'oh, I won't do the caring, I chose to have children, mum, so you'll have to make do.'

Yes childless people can be carers too but why are men often immune from the the pressure to care. IME single women and men are often under less obligation to care for elderly relatives because they work. As a SAHP I found myself constantly under pressure from SS, GP, Hospital, neighbours and family friends to know and do everything for my parents. I believe that had I been working full time this would have been respected and I would have been let off the hook. This is because participation in the workforce is respected above all else.

Yup. That's the big question, mini.

When my gran was ill, my mum did masses. I did masses. We each lived over 100 miles away. My brother was much nearer, but of course, he was busy, don't you know, and besides, it would be so difficult.

I never got treated badly when I was childless Half of my friends are still childless, they have loads of money, holiday when and where they want and pretty much enjoy their carefree lives. Those of us who've bred, have less money, time, energy, freedom and that's ok, the kids more than make up for it.

You're obviously unhappy with your life, as a carer you're probably on a very limited income, are very busy, stressed, bored, have little freedom and social life. That's your problem, not being childless or not, not medias advertising or a daily mail columnists opinion on your non breeding status.

LRD, so maybe its just ALL women who are expected to care, OPs situation seems to suggest women, even if single still come under pressure. I still think though that status is tied to economic activity and single working women and men have less pressure to care. Its recognised that they are busy. I'm a full time student now and I still have a social worker redirecting all and sundry to me in respect of Father's care.

Oh, yes, I think it's absolutely that - all women are expected to care, but especially women with children (which my mum is, obviously).

Because the assumption is you have all that free time, right?

I think the student thing is interesting - this is just from observation so it's anecdata, but I've noticed that male students who are parents definitely see the studying as an important job. Female students, it's all 'oh well, Joe does less with the baby because he works and I'm just studying'. It's very telling.

(And don't get me started on someone I know, whose female friend actually spend more hours alone with her baby than her husband did, and while all three - mother, father and friend - were students).

FFS,

What do you mean "pressure to care"?! It is not caring if that is why you do it. I have two small children, am doing a full on retraining course (hols at mom) and, sadly, my mother is slowly dying of cancer. I talk to her every day and go and see her whenever I can (about 1.5 hours each way), often just for the day, to be back to spend the evening with my children. And guess what, that is because I CARE, not because someone is putting me under "pressure to care". I imagine these elderly relatives would rather you left them alone if the only reason for caring is outside pressure.

Flaming heck. I'm childless out of choice and at nearly 46 there is definitely no changing my mind but I think you are being totally irrational and resentful about people who have children. As an adult your life is full of choices. Choose what you want and be happy with it.

By caring, I think OP means taking on many of the tasks of a care worker for someone unable to do their own personal care/shopping/laundry etc.

Not the act of giving a shit.

I'm sorry to hear that, larry.

I think you are being a bit harsh, though. For me, 'pressure to care' came in the form of nurses ringing me, in preference to my brother, to race 100 miles to pick up my grandmother. Or in terms of her (admittedly lovely) GP doing the same. Or in terms of my uncle ringing and saying 'sorry, I have a meeting, you'll have to come'.

Of course I was sad she was dying and of course I cared. I am not convinced I was actually 100 times sadder than my uncle and my brothers, but I did 100 times more work. Some of this was because these men didn't get their fingers out, but some was because people made assumptions that the female-named contact would be more available than the male named one.

And no, my granny wouldn't have rather I left her alone. She wasn't safe alone. For a lot of time time we were effectively living in her house, waking up in the night to take her to the toilet, sit with her while she screamed because the morphine wasn't helping, calm her down when she was sobbing and couldn't understand any more why she was in pain, etc. etc.

Sorry to hear that Larry.

Certainly when I think about 'pressure to care' I don't mean emotional caring or visiting but pressure to take on the role of care worker - shopping, changing sheets, laundry, dealing with soiling and helping someone to the loo. There does seem to be more societal pressure on women to take on this role, no matter how much else they have on their plate. I can think of part of my own family where the woman is expected to deal with all of this despite living 50 miles away whereas the brother is a 'good son' for simply visiting, despite being unemployed and living down the road.

Larry, I'm sorry to hear about your mum and not for one minute am I suggesting that men don't care. As other's have said its not about how much you care on an emotional level but about how much shit work you are prepared to do because no oneelse is either willing, able or inclined to help. Its well recognised and documented and plenty of feminist scholars have researched it, that women, esp mother's are seen as carers. Having established that they are unpaid carers the pressure remains for them to undertake all other forms of unpaid care work.

*mothers ! I have a stray apostrophe, must read before posting.

midnight100 - get a grip and live your life for what it is, not for what people think of it or what you want people to think of it. External Validation is one of the main diseases than society teaches women and one of the easiest to walk-away from.

I am childless too but I never felt weird because of it, let alone discriminated. I got married quite late in life and for me children equalled a stable relationship, because as a child I had went through hell in my original family...

When I got married, I already was in a bad health situation and the risks for me and the child were very high. So no babies for me. I've to be honest though, nobody ever made me feel bad because I don't have any.

I'm not sure what you want op, more adverts playfully mocking your situation of unpaid lackey?

Because that's what seems to be upsetting you and I can assure you those adverts were not written by sahms.

There is a definite problem with the way childless or childfree women are portrayed.. but if you want to compare the way women who have children lose their identity, their status and frequently throughout the world actual health rights and bodily autonomy the second they get pregnant..you won't win.

And no you can't understand until youve had kids totall. just like i can't say what being an unpaid carer is like.

But you're angry and you have a reason to be but you're angry at the wrong people. Martyred mother or martyred carer

*didn't finish. Posted in middle of night.

Your problem should be that you're expected by society to be a martyrd anything.

Straining it also sounds like their selective memories kicked in too. Forgetting how you had always more than accomodated them for 4 years previously.