Advice on how to deal with this calmly on Monday, please

[newtonupontheheath]

This is my first post in feminism, so please be kind. I am just home from the office Christmas do... I've been told if something that happened today and need to get things straight so I can deal with it in the right way (and not just get angry) I'm sorry it's long!

I have a team of 11 and today 9 of us went out for Christmas lunch at the pub close to work. We can work from home or the office, so a split of people arriving from various locations by car and walking. One chap who has worked for the company for a long time has text the new temp asking if she needed a lift between work and pub. Work has accommodation block, where some of the team are staying so they can drive and park at work, then come back by taxi and sleep over. Temp says yes please; she doesn't know the area so could do with lift.

A few texts are exchanged between the two, mainly to locate each other on site. Chap adds "xxxxxxx" to one of them, temp adds "x" to some texts, some have no "x" at the end.

We all then are at the pub, those of us that have ordered Christmas lunch rather than normal menu have to sit together as the potatoes/veg are on sharing dishes. Chap ends up sat next to temp, or vice versa... ("Friends" within team end up split up because of this).

At some point during meal, chap texts temp asking "are we going back to your room after this then?" Temp ignores text. We finish meal, have another drink, then 3 of us-me, temp and another guy, head into town. everybody else is sober, driving, so goes home.

A couple of hours later, chap texts temp again saying "are you all squiffy and falling down drunk yet?"

Only at this point does temp tell the other guy we are out with about texts. He then tells me as team leader, obviously I have a responsibility to do something about it. The guy then tells me another woman on the team has received similar texts in the past.

I'm so so angry with this chap. Temp now feels she may have led him on. She's a couple of years younger than me, and I'm trying to set an example as a strong woman and a supervisor that she has done nothing to attract this attention and shouldn't come to expect/put up with this because she is a woman.

I really need some balanced advice as to how to deal with this on Monday, please. Temp is meeting me for coffee first thing so we can have a chat... Any help would be appreciated. I am so angry that he thinks he can make these comments and get away with it.

She thinks she led him on?

Bloody hell so much work to do, please explain to her that it is ridiculous for her to think that she led the idiot on. I used to add an x to the end of texts to my mil.

I wasn't leading her on...

Getting a lift off of someone isn't a sexual contract either.

And implying he's in with a chance is more than a bit rapey.

What's going to happen to the sleazy male employee?

*in with a chance because she was drunk

*in with a chance because she was drunk

Those texts are sexual harassment.

Surely your workplace has a policy on how this should be dealt with.

If there isn't anything in a policy I would think at least a formal warning is in order.

If the temp is not comfortable say you picked up her phone when she went to the toilet, or she thought it was a cab texting that it had arrived and said to you, 'just check that' you get the idea.

He should also be told not to offer lifts to any female staff in future, for his own benefit (obviously not really but phrase it this way) because he could be dismissed if he does this again.

Do not take any 'it was a misunderstanding' nonsense.

Tell him that sex with a 'falling down drunk' woman is rape and he is lucky you are not calling the police.

Have a witness for you and one for him so there is no dispute about what was said.

That is outrageous . She did not lead him on, nor is any of this her fault. Do you have an HR department? If so, then as a manager, I would be meeting with him and HR at 9am on Monday to deliver a verbal warning. If not, then involve a senior manager. This is really, really serious and needs to be escalated. As ours have said, he's lucky the police aren't involved (although the temp is quite within her rights to do so. Bastard)

So let me get this straight. She accepted s lift of this bloke and he thought that was a green light to her room? Was she staying in the accommodation block too? And did she manage to avoid that scenario with the bloke last night?

Farkin' hell! Yep that is a huge issue, especially as he has form (they always do). If you can get hold of the temp between now and Monday make sure she doesn't delete the texts. As PleaseJustLeave says reassure her she has done nothing wrong. Get the facts off her and a timeline. Have you got an HR dept or a Dignity at Work scheme or anything? They might be able to help. Do you think the other woman he harassed would be able to provide testimony or evidence too? Can you or the guy who told you be able to speak to her or will she feel betrayed/embarrassed/uncomfortable?

Ultimately if the women don't want to take this further I'm not sure what you can do (other than assure them they are not in the wrong and keep an eye on him). If they do then you may have to use some official channels according to company policy. I think there is a member K8Middleton who is pretty good on employment law and sexism in the workplace. She maybe able to help if she sees this.

Suspend and investigate. That's all you can do.

Until you have all the evidence, and this could just be the tip of the iceberg, you have to suspend and investigate. Do not issue a verbal warning; as you have to investigate it all first. You can go straight to dismissal if it warrants gross misconduct but you have to have all your evidence available first.

Make sure you type out a letter for HR to approve to suspend him. Then suspend him. Then investigate. Then hold a disciplinary meeting. Then adjourn. Then decide on outcome.

Anything else can seem like you have acted on impulse and could end up with him reinstated if you do decide to sack on gross misconduct.

Get your company disciplinary procedure now, and make sure you know and get advice from HR on every step.

And whilst he is suspended, you interview each person that you think he has come into contact with that he could have done this to already.

And I'd hold off the chat with the temp until you have suspended. I take it you have seen the texts?

'this was brought to my attention so I am suspending whilst an investigation is carried out'.

I would have a chat with the temp. Then a chat with HR before you talk to the chap. You need to be sure to follow procedure to a) not give him a leg to stand on if he appeals to a subsequent dismissal and b) protect yourself.

You don't 'have a chat' with HR about this - HR is there to keep the company out of court in situations like this - they absolutely need to check every step you are making and that it is legal and fair and won't land the company in court. And you don't have a chat with the temp - you suspend pending investigation and then investigate.

If the OP saw the texts, asked informally and sees/hears enough to be concerned, the suspension comes next. Not little chats.

Hi, thanks for answering. I'm just catching up and will probably come back once the children are in bed with more questions.

We do have a hr dept. I will be involving senior management and hr on Monday.

I wanted to make sure I wasn't over reacting last night, had a couple of beers but not loads and loads. Well not over reaction, but that my instinct was right.

Temp won't delete the texts. She thinks it's "not on" but didn't seem to be aware of the severity of the situation. She's got a phd (so is obviously very intelligent) but hasn't worked in a large organisation before so isn't really aware of what's acceptable and what's not for the organisation. So she would have just shrugged it off unless I'd said I'd no option. But I wouldn't have shrugged it off even if I did have the option, iyswim.

In terms of suspension, I've been told in the past that it's only done when dismissal is likely. Do you think that would be a likely outcome? A colleague has previously described this chap as "slippery" and I'm sure he knows his why round every policy in the book.....

You suspend when you think it could be serious. That's the whole point; you don't know what's likely until you have investigated.

Unfortunately it won't be my decision whether he is suspended or not. I'm just trying to get myself as clued up as possible for Monday!

You aren't the manager?

If it's anything like my workplace (NHS), it's really not as simple as 'just' suspending someone there and then for anything but the most serious of cases. There are procedures and policies which have to be adhered to, and Unions have to be involved if the member of staff is a member.

Yes but unfortunately I can't suspend a member of staff. My senior manager can only do that. That's why I'm want to have thought everything through properly by Monday. So I can present in as clear-cut a way as possible.

We're not NHS but not far from the mark there. It's so bureaucratic. Unions, policies, procedures. It's not right but it's what we have to do.

I think you would be better involving HR from the outset, rather than 'just' meeting with the temp over a cup of coffee, given the severity of the incident. You need to make sure that it's all done according to the letter of the policy.

I'm in HR and I've been a manager and had to deal with similar before. Because this situation appears to be widely known I'd suggest the following:

Firstly, speak to your HR and manager ASAP. Just relay facts and timeline. Do not give an opinion. Make sure you write this down - an email is good.

Secondly, try to keep some perspective about this. While it is distasteful, how the subject of the attention feels about this is important. If she is not overly bothered I wouldn't be making her see it on any other way than how she sees it. Does she or the college who witnessed the messages wish to make a complaint/grievance? Or do you? Because if none of you do, disciplinary action will be difficult to take and dismissal based on what you have said sounds very unlikely.

Really, if it was just texts and it's the first occasion you have been aware of then I would be having a conversation with him explaining why his actions were inappropriate and that if it were to happen again you will be taking disciplinary action. I would also make sure all staff are reminded of the bullying and harassment policy and that this applies to behaviour at work events and work related social activities including Xmas do etc.

The message of Sat 07-Dec-13 16:41:38 suggests that the "victim" in this case isn't taking the incident as seriously as people here are inclined to do. That might mean it could be embarrassing to get too severe until management/HR have had time to be involved. I mean, what if the temp says "It was annoying, but really I didn't feel threatened and I don't want to see a big fuss made over it"? I really don't know what to think about a situation where someone might feel that they haven't got the right to say how far retribution ought to go. I suppose a lot hangs on what this man has done in the past and whether he's had any warnings about his behaviour.

Any news on this situation?