Pole dancing exercise classes

[BadgerBumBag]

A friend is organising a group pole dancing class as a fun night out. I have reservations. I won't lie, most of my reluctance is due to being rather larger and less fit than the others, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable with the whole idea.

Am I being daft or does gyrating round a pole as exercise seem ok to you?

Flora I understand the sentiment, I really do, but I think it depends on how the word is used. Yes, this is a feminist board, but it isn't Feministing or Jezebel and whilst I do get it, I'm not sure others will. Thus it becomes more of a put down than a challenge, however unintentional.

As I say, I've done some pole fitness and I have mixed views about it. I don't see any harm in any individual woman going to pole fitness and actually it's good fun, but I do see harm in strip clubs (although I'm not an abolitionist and am vaguely sex positive still looking for a box to fit in ). It's a tricky one.

TheDoctrine There is another answer of course, which is neither of your options, that is:

'I understand the link to stripping and I don't think I can overpower this at this time but I wish to continue this activity because:

• I think it has merit
• I enjoy it and don't personally associate it with stripping
• I associate it with gymnastics / athletics and think that through what I'm doing in time the link will change
• I am for personal choice and don't give a shiny shit

I'm not suggesting I prefer any of them incidentally, but it's disingenuous to suggest people may think of the 'right answer' and then think 'actually I don't care' or 'I will work around this'.

Doctrine I see what you're saying. But I'm of the belief that life is too short to worry about the wider implications that my personal innocent exercise regime has on wider society (none, I think- strip clubs are still going to exist regardless of whether or not I'm using a metal bar to exercise.) Even when I took classes, the money wasn't going into the pockets of some sleazy lap-dancing owner, it was normal ladies who were running a fitness class.

I really resent pole dancing being compared to drug consumption etc, that's not right at all. I'm not harming anyone else! I'm saying 'don't knock it till you've tried it' as there are a lot of misconceptions around pole dancing, like sadly some women think its extremely difficult, or they're too fat, or it's extremely risqué and you have to wear disco pants and heels.

Pole came out of strip clubs: it broke out, because it is hard and skilful and fun and exciting to do.
Capoeira came out of slaves practising fighting and self defence and escaping bondage and broke out because it is hard and skilful and fun etc etc.
Belly dancing came out of women preparing for labour and to please men who pretty much owned them: it broke out because you guessed it...

The origins of many dances, even the waltz were shocking and sleazy at the time and they broke out and went mainstream and changed and evolved.

I think pole is in that just-post transition stage and is mainstream now. Liking it isn't condoning stripping any more than liking capoeira is condoning slavery or liking belly dance condoning harems.

Posy, I meant that those were two possible approaches to fighting the link, if fighting was in the agenda.

I wasn't sure from Tracy's posts whether she was anti stripping anyway, hence the last line.

Acknowledging the link but not fighting it is Secret Option Number 3 (old gimmer Friends quote), as you say.

TBH, I can see how it's fun and gymnastic and a good workout - I feel like that about Zumba and ballet, so why not? It would be great if it wasn't problematic, but for me, it is. But I make plenty of choices to do things that are enjoyable but not feminist, so I'm not polishing my halo or anything.

trucks has persuaded me anyway (not to rush out and try it exactly but to revise my opinion at least) her analogies are great I think

there is very little that isn't 'problematic' or couldn't be argued to be contributing to the wider dismal state of things for women - buying make up and shit for example - can't imagine people (self included) being quite so sneery of adult ballet classes when really practically everything about ballet is horrific

I don't work out of the home at this time but when I did work in an office none of my colleagues were informed about my exercise regime in detail: I used to say I am off to fitness class I think, or dance class. Tbh I wouldn't discuss diet or exercise with people I worked with any more than I'd discuss my love life or my family's latest dramas!
I think a few people worked out I used to be a [ballet/contemporary] dancer but I didn't discuss that either.
Interesting q, why did you ask?

Another random q: how would you feel about a pal inviting you out to a can-can group dancing taster session evening activity?

If a tree falls in a forest...
If a person hangs upside down from a pole in shorts and there are no men waving fivers....just other clapping sweaty women/co-students or the dancer is alone in her studio/home...where is the objectification? The disempowerment? The patriarchal expectation of subjugation? The male gaze?

Tbf I dare say any number of men could have had a good stare at my crotch when I performed ballet. It was just as much on view doing an arabesque as doing a pole move. The strength and agility needed is pretty much the same, the leotard showed more than the shorts do now.

Loads I'd replies to read through! Haven't even checked in today... Still undecided!

Leastaccomplished - absolutely, it's a taster so I don't think it will be about sport. It's designed to be a fun night out 'with the girls'

How men in particular react to hearing of women they know pole dancing is just another factor to consider. As is the willingness of non-stripping women to publicise that they pole dance.

The obvious answer to that is if I gave a shit what some bloke in the office thought about my exercise choices I might as well never work up a sweat.
Yoga? Phworrrr, well bendy in bed.
Tennis? Way-hey, love to see her in a tennis skirt
Kick boxing, judo? Ooh she could dominate me in bed.
Swimming? Nice tight swimsuit yeah love
Blah blah.

I dance for myself, not for any man. Men are not able to view me and the other women dancing. I don't generally seek opinions from those with whom I might randomly interact, colleagues, neighbours, the bus driver, even your Dh and his friends (!) - about how I please my body and soul, nor do I need to evangelise or educate the masses that pole dancing and pole fitness training are now being practised by hundreds of thousands of women for their own gratification not men's.

I should have thought people would, if they paused to even consider it, be able to grasp that pole fitness classes are to stripping what boxercise is to bare knuckle fighting.
And there's always google: try typing 'pole dancing' in and you won't get hits for strip clubs on the front page...

Anyway. That probably sounded defensive. I'm not ashamed about pole dancing, I just think any form of dance or exercise can be perved over, hell, anything women do can be judged or perved over - I know what dancing means to me, what a pole class is really like and I am not concerned by others concern when they don't know, and haven't wanted to find out, because they can't get past the 'came from strip clubs' thing.

Fwiw I loathe boxing as entertainment, people brain-damaging each other for a spectacle but I can see boxing training fitness classes are different and not the problem.

It's a particularly convoluted type of feminism which dictates what women can and can't do, according to how some men react to that activity.

I guess the logical conclusion to this type of reasoning is the Niq?b. I'm not really in favour of this sort of reasoning.

No-one is dictating, Jo. We are discussing different points of view about pole dancing classes.

I suppose the question here is how much something is contaminated if it has degrading origins. If it's done with a positive atmosphere (i.e. without sexy costumes, high heels or a phwoaar-saying audience) can we accept that it's innocent?

It's a bit like shaving pubic hair. It's not that we want to accuse individuals of anything, but even if people say it's moved away from porn/stripping, a lot of us just can't forget that connection.

I guess the logical conclusion to this type of reasoning is the Niq?b. I'm not really in favour of this sort of reasoning. haha what sort of logic is this?

the logic and reasoning of someone else's acid trip maybe?

A quick Google image search for "Chinese pole performance" shows that it is perfectly possible do pole-based acrobatics whilst fully-clothed, with no loss of grip, as Chinese acrobats have done for centuries. Chinese pole acrobats are usually (but not always) male. The pole's surface is designed to facilitate a certain amount of grip.

The insistence on slippery steel poles and bare flesh for "grip", and the way that no-one in the pole fitness world cares to challenge or change this, is interesting.