Miss/Mrs/Ms...

[eatriskier]

Ok, an oldie in the world of feminism.

I am a Ms. I have been a Ms since I was about 15. Back then it was a strange thing to do, but its 2013 now so isn't that odd I thought.

Apparently not. One of the post office workers tried to turn down my passport check today because I was married and therefore need to be Mrs. Yes need, as in I have to be. I explained I have never been a Miss or a Mrs, and don't intend to start now. She went and checked with a supervisor.

I should have known it wasn't going to go well when she refused to believe that an adult may not have a current valid passport...

I prefer not to use a title at all, but there are so many badly-coded web pages where that isn't an option. Whether I'm Ms, Miss or Mrs, someone will make assumptions about me, far more than a man will ever get for being Mr.

At least in France and Germany you seem to be Mme or Frau once you're over about 25, regardless of your marital status. This did cause me great confusion once - "I'm not Frau GermanBoyfriend!" but my German wasn't up to arguing the point or discussing why I might be Frau out of convention, so I gave up, and probably left the receptionist wondering about how insane this weird foreign woman was.

My sparkly new DBS certificate (which is close at hand, because I still haven't got round to putting it in a safe place...) doesn't use any title, though I admit I don't remember what was on the application form. I know I would have avoided using a title if I had the option.

I prefer to use Ms, but I'd really prefer no title at all, or at least one which didn't show my gender.

Yrs, Comrade Bearhug.

MrsTP ... well, if a LadyTP shows up while you're around...

When I tried to change my Lloyd's account to Ms the bank manager asked if I was divorced. I'm the only name on that account so there's no reason to ask me and asking kind of defeats the whole reason for "Ms".

If there's no Ms option on a form I will tick Reverend or HRH.

As there's a data entry element to my current job I have had the opportunity to notice that boys are referred to as Master until they're 16, or sometimes 18, whereupon they assume the adult title of Mr; conversely girls and women retain their childhood title Miss for ever or until they get married. Is the presumption, then, that women are only allowed a proper grown-up title if/when they get married? I respectfully submit that Ms could fulfil this function. It is no more clumsy than Mr ("mur?"). We're just not so used to it.

Disclaimer: I'm Ms Marriedname on account of being divorced, boringly conventional person that I am.

It is no more clumsy than Mr ("mur?").

It's a bit different, Mr. being an abbreviation for Mister whereas Ms is a somewhat unpronounceable neologism - 'M'zz' or however it comes out is a bit grating, which is a shame. But that's besides the point when it comes to forms.

I've been taking the mickey out of online forms for years simply so I can have a simple method of sorting junk mail from actual stuff. If it comes in for Captain BreakingWave (not as in the military rank, as in the superhero identity) or Reverend BreakingWave or (if they let me fill in the blank myself) Maximum Leader BreakingWave I know it can safely go in the bin.

I'm not married but get called Mrs mysurname by DDs school - or Miss (by the secretary who i think had issues with unmarried mothers!).
I would have put Ms on the form...but actually I don't really care except...
I know some of the passport people can be complete idiots....some of them are just form fillers !
I can also be Dr but don't really use it.
Used it for something and it caused a problem because it wasn't on my passport or driving licence. Had never had a problem the other way round so changed my driving licence on renewal (no problems).
Tried to do the same for passport (they just put 'also known as doctor' on the back) the 'form filler' told me I couldn't because I wasn't a 'real' doctor.
(I have Phd (from a real university) I am actually a 'real' doctor whereas medical doctors aren't!)
It really put my back up! I don't usually care about stuff like that and I felt like a real arse complaining but I did and it was sorted.
(Now I have had a problem the other way round so maybe I should have left them!)

Of course, there is nothing wrong with neologisms as such. But Ms. is not even that new. It has been around for a long time, but little used until it was revived in the 1970s. And even it we take that period as its inception, a word that has been in increasingly common use for 40 years is not a neologism.

And I just don't get the issues with pronunciation. I am from the southern US. Many of us have been pronouncing Mrs. as Miz for centuries. Is it the "z" sound people have trouble with or don't like? So "Liz" and "fizz," are they a bit grating, too?

I had the joy of a DBS check yesterday (some kind of cousin of a CBS check) and was indeed informed in the interview that I couldn't be a Ms as I had never been married or divorced.

I was truely flabbergasted and had to bite my tounge VERY fucking hard when the interviewer head tilted and asked me why I didn't want people to know I was still a Miss, 'Because that's what you are really isn't it?'

DBS is what used to be CRB.

If you were only biting your tongue, Gobblers, then I think you were very restrained and to be congratulated.

It is odd. I am a Ms and it confuses people all the time. They think it means your divorced or have just never heard of it.

I was truely flabbergasted and had to bite my tounge VERY fucking hard when the interviewer head tilted and asked me why I didn't want people to know I was still a Miss, 'Because that's what you are really isn't it?'

I actually don't think I could have bitten my tongue. I would have been tempted to say "Why don't you want people to know you're still a [insert insult of your choice], because that's what you are really, isn't it?"

Are they allowed to make such inaccurate and offensive comments? You are NOT a "Miss" if that isn't the title you choose.

WhosLookingAfterCourtney

Not that long ago either. 1960s

I got grilled on my choice of titles by the pensions man who rang me up to set up my new work pension. He obviously had the info about the fact that I changed my name when I got married & that my title is Ms.

When I said that I would like to leave my death in service benefit to DH he seemed shocked. I then had to explain that yes, I was still happily married, no, I didn't want to be referred to as Mrs, yes I had changed my name, after much thought and debate for reasons pertaining to DH's family.

He capped it all off by saying, 'I hope you don't mind me asking....'

Yes, yes I bloody do! Aaargh!

Where has this idea that it means you are divorced come from? It has never meant that, that's not what it was introduced for. It's just totally made up and utterly random. So why do so many people, and even some major organisations see that as fact? I simply don't understand.

Taking perhaps one step further, I have often wondered why so many, if not all, forms ask you to specify Male/Female. What possible purpose does it serve to British Gas, a bank, or anyone? What difference does it make other than to establish that there are about as many men as women?

Can anyone think of a legal reason why any organisation needs to have us specify gender?

To me it doesn't mean you are divorced as such, but divorce is one of the situations when it comes in handy. I used to say Ms was for divorcees and don't-knows. Nowadays I add mind-your-own-businesses as well

MuswellHillDad, so they know whether to send the invoices on pink paper I guess. Or maybe to avoid the dreadful prospect of sending a letter to "Dear Mr/Ms..." or even worse, just "Dear customer"

AA man called me Mrs today. I've never been married, but I assume I'm getting old.

(Bloody EMS, is all I can say.)

I clicked on a link on the right of this page to donate to Shelter. The form had a compulsory field for title, offering Mr, Miss and Mrs. So they have lost my donation, cos I'm not any of those people.
(Actually, I'll probably find another way to donate, cos its a cause I think is important, but still, they have put me off a bit)

Annie Ms could definitely stand for Mind-your-own-businesS

I was musing on this at the GP's surgery the other day. Despite numerous requests to change my title to Ms, they still continue to refer to me as Miss Socka.

There were two little boys there with their mums who got called in before me, both of them were named on the screen as 'Mr ___'. They got the adult title, I got the little girl's title.

Gobblers that is appalling! Someone needs to start a campaign or petition or something.

(I've used Ms since I was teenager, both as a single and married woman - for the reason that I don't see why my marital status should be part of the name by which I am addressed - what does it matter? In my profession (law - apparently not as stuffy as some other areas!), it is thankfully becoming increasingly common to refer to other women as "Ms X".)

feelathome, you should tell them why you haven't donated - there's a good chance they'd change it, if they know it's losing them money.

Gobbers that is actually one of the few situations where 'did you mean to be so rude?' might actually work.

I've used Dr since I got my PhD, my SIL is a GP and has the same name as me so DB calls me the 'real' doctor and her the 'useful' doctor . Ironically because I always get asked my title all paperwork has 'Dr' for me but poor DH is just assumed to be a Mr so we do get letters to Dr and Mr.

Oh, just remembered that I had to check some details that school held about us this week. Obviously when filling in forms I had not used titles for myself, DH or our emergency contacts but everyone on the list can use Dr. School has used titles as follows: men are Mr, women with the same surname as their children are Mrs and women with different surnames from their children are Ms. so Ms presumably means 'not married'. I feel a complaining letter needs to be written.

One of my biggest bugbears. I am a Ms have been for two decades. I did not take my husband's name - although we chortle when he gets called Mr Terrortree...

However, the bank refuses to change my title to Ms from Miss (There was no option for Ms when I opened the account) despite me requesting it for the last 15 years.

I've written soooo many times to request the change and done it face to face three times. And still I'm 'miss'. Last time I went in (for another reason) and asked them to change it (again!) and was told I needed to make an appointment with the bank manager.

I informed them that it appears to be easier to change banks. So that is what I'll do.

I do wonder though, If I were suddenly 'knighted' (damed?), would they be so fecking obtuse?