Miss/Mrs/Ms...

[eatriskier]

Ok, an oldie in the world of feminism.

I am a Ms. I have been a Ms since I was about 15. Back then it was a strange thing to do, but its 2013 now so isn't that odd I thought.

Apparently not. One of the post office workers tried to turn down my passport check today because I was married and therefore need to be Mrs. Yes need, as in I have to be. I explained I have never been a Miss or a Mrs, and don't intend to start now. She went and checked with a supervisor.

I should have known it wasn't going to go well when she refused to believe that an adult may not have a current valid passport...

All for choice. Ms is generally in the choice. I don't correct if people call me Ms, it isn't important.

The title is meant to convey something about the bearer. Mine today (I NC a few days back for the thread on marriage) conveys the fact that I am unmarried. I have always been Miss. Actually it makes me smile when I fill in forms because "Miss" always makes me think of Little Miss Naughty www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Miss-Naughty-Classic-Library/dp/1405235276 but I have always loved a rebel!

Everyone loves their titles though don't they. They just want free reign over their choice, which of course to some extent makes titles defunct, but people still cling to them. I mean, what if you could swap Ms for Countess, would you? and what's more it wouldn't convey your marital status but it would convey your social status. As marriage status and class status are two sides of the same coin, pls think about being more consistent!

It's at times like this that I am glad to have emigrated to a country where there is just one title for adult women and one for adult men. It makes life so much easier.

Mostly, when I need to do something in English, I avoid using a title altogether, as I don't really see the point in them. If I really have to, then I use Ms.

I do find it odd that people would assume you had to use a particular title to reflect your marital status - surely that's the whole point of using Ms??

Yes, as a previous poster says for a CRB form if you put Ms they will assume you are divorced so you have to put in previous names, no choice or option for saying you have never been married. Have to say I just gave in and put Miss, not sure if you just put your only name as a previous name if they would accept it.
When I lived in America I never got called a title. It was mam in shops but letters were just first name last name. I much preferred it.

I think we should just get rid of all titles. Or simply have Ms and get rid of Miss and Mrs

What annoys me is sometimes forms don't even have Ms on them or people say is that 'Mrs or Miss?'

To my mind forms should say'Mr/Ms/other - please state' for anyone who prefers Mrs or Miss or Dr or Lady etc.

None of my workplaces for 10 years have used titles when people interact professionally - I wish this would filter through to daily life as well.

You couldn't swap Ms for Countess as a form of address; it would be Lady. And as it's another "married name" title (showing you're married to an Earl) then no, I wouldn't be swapping Ms for it. I don't agree with hereditary titles so I wouldn't accept one of those in the unlikely event that it were offered. An only-marginally-more-likely life peerage (which would be Baroness rather than Countess) is more of a job thing than a social thing, so I'd put it in the same category as Doctor - i.e. I'd use it in a relevant work context but not socially, so I wouldn't be changing bank accounts or other contact details or expecting anyone to address me by it.

I manage fine with consistency, but thanks for your concern.

10 years at least TBH.

scallops wouldn't a crb form need to check for previous names as it's checking for crimes that may have been committed under a different name?

Having said that, I wonder if men get asked.

"Lady" by itself wouldn't convey your married status, though, it's true. You could be Lady X and be married to Lord X, or be the daughter of a Duke or Marquess, or be a life peer in your own right. That's a somewhat rareified set of speculations, though.

Good-looking, the problem is that if you put Ms in as a title the CRB process won't accept that you don't have any previous names. It assumes that if you are Ms you MUST be divorced and so MUST have a previous surname, and won't let you say that you don't. This is even though Ms doesn't mean that, has never meant that, and people have been pointing out the error since CRB forms were first introduced.

Damnyouautocorrect. WhosLooking, not Good-looking. Although I'm sure you are...

Pachacuti, sorry, its the confusion btw french and english. My mother could use her title but chose not to, even after divorce she could continue to use it and no it wasn't Lady as in the English form. But the point is titles are purposeful if they convey something, if they convey nothing or one picks and chooses according to what they want to communicate to others, they are defunct.

You can buy a title, if you did what might you be trying to communicate? The point is that marriage in the past was not just about cosy winters in front of fires but was of importance socially. If it glued society together and subjugated women then, it still does, nothing about it has fundamentally changed. (ask Dave and Osborne et al) Objectively its the same institution only subjectively we conceive it to be different because we have changed.

I love being a Mrs, tho never use it (have another title). Im always conflicted between theory and practice tho.
I fully agree one's marital status is no one's business but I quite like being mrs X (dh's surname is way better than mine though. Had it been rubbish I wouldn't have taken it, I'm that superficial...)

At the other end if the spectrum, doesn't Liberty online include Countess, Earl, Sultan, Sheikh and every possible title. At least it's fair on everyone

It's not really the same IMO. In the past a married woman couldn't own property in her own right, needed her husband's permission to enter into a contract, couldn't divorce her husband although she could be divorced, would automatically lose custody of her children on marriage breakdown with no right to any contact, was deemed to have given irrevocable consent to sexual intercourse and would automatically be fired from a job by many employers. Now none of that is the case and I think those are pretty fundamental objective changes.

I would prefer not to use a title at all; I don't see that it's in any way necessary. Given that for most purposes I am, however, required to use one, I choose the option that conveys the smallest possible amount of extraneous information. There's no reason it should ever need to be changed, because the only thing it tells anyone is that I'm an adult female.

For the avoidance of doubt, I wouldn't swap Ms for Countess either. And not everyone loves their titles.

(also: used to need her husband's permission to be supplied with any form of contraception. That's changed too)

I am Ms. I did not take DH's name.

I really am always a bit surprised on these threads the extent to which titles are still so important in the UK. Increasingly, in the States we are moving to no titles; letters are often addressed Mary Smith and the salutation would be Dear Mary Smith. This reflects the historical Quaker practice, although that is not the reason, except perhaps in parts of Pennsylvania.

For women if a title is used, Ms. is usually the default, especially in professional settings. This is as it should be because why should a woman's title depend on her marital status when a man's does not?

Mrs., Miss, and Ms. are all abbreviations of Mistress. At one time unmarried women were also called Mrs. Ms. is just a modern abbreviation that returns to form.

I think titles should be done away with too.

I like the scene in Mask where Cher gets asked if she's Miss or Mrs and says 'None of those things - just Rusty'

(I'd like to be called Rusty or Cher too)

The CRB form is a real mess. I am Mrs Breathe MiddleName MaidenName Slowly or Mrs Slowly. But apparently I couldn't be for my CRB. I had to put Breathe MiddleName MaidenName as my previous name and Breathe MiddleName Slowly as my current name. No amount of pointing out that isn't my current name would get them to change it. I'm not sure if that means that as long as I commit all my murders under the name I actually use, it won't show up on my CRB.

Wow pach I didn't realise that. That's terrible.

I am a very weird sort of person who has taken both her husbands names (not concurrent husbands btw ) but refuses to budge from Ms. This is mainly because I have a 'why the hell should anyone be able to tell just from my name' stance and because my maiden name isn't great. So sadly I was handing over a marriage certificate and a form with Ms. Must have blown her mind.

breathe yeah, you'll be fine with that approach I'm sure

I always use my forename and surname where possible, I don't use Mrs ( apart from my job as a teacher where my name is Mrs Slug...) has worked for me for the past (gulp) 30 years

I work with someone whose husband took her name on marriage as their daughter had Mum's surname..now THAT is equality!

I read something in the Times this weekend about a 15 yr old schoolgirl which referred to her as Ms - so the idea that it's only applicable to divorced or uppity married women is hopefully on its way out.

Er, MrsTP ... I can't help wonder, I'm sure Sir TP wouldn't mind you being a Ms

Errol Sir TP is fine with it . He's just happy to be married to me.