Can we please talk about Male Circumcision?

[KaseyM]

It seems to be an undeniable truth that whenever there is a thread about, well anything to do with the inustices that women face in the world, it will usually turn back into a conversation about the injustices that men face in the world, one of them being male circumcision.

I get the impression that those coming on here saying "well what about male circumcision" in that lovely WATM way actually believe that feminists either a) invented male circumcision or b) approve of it.

So, just for the record and so that in future we can direct any further derailings to this can we state categorically once and for all each of our individual positions on Male Circumcision.

So I'll start: I disagree with it 100%.

Anyone else?

[johanna55]

www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/10/oprah-skin-cream-foreskin-protest_n_3053871.html

Do you know in the USA foreskins removed from baby boys are used (without their permission or knowledge) to make face creams for middle-aged women? Oprah openly condones the use of these creams and gave out free samples on her show.

Can you imagine the outcry if cells taken from FGM procedures were used to make some kind of luxury cosmetic product for men?

[sonlypuppyfat]

My DS was circumcised when he was 6 he was getting infection after infection he was on antibiotics all the time it was awful. The operation was dreadful but I think in the end it was worth it.

[BerstieSpotts]

I think it is a massive deal. I can't imagine handing my newborn baby off to have an operation unless I knew it was going to save his life.

Obviously if there is a medical need it is different but I think there should be a "wait and see" approach.

It utterly horrified me when I found out that circumcision is still routinely done without anaesthetic, or if anaesthetic is used, it's paracetamol or a topical cream (both so weak as to be useless for this procedure - you wouldn't expect an adult to go through it) or a topical anaesthetic which is injected. The injection itself must be horrendously painful as the site is very sensitive!

General anaesthetic is not used as it is considered too risky and it is not necessary (because newborn babies are so small, they can keep them still by strapping them down.) - I thought this was hysteria when I first read it, when I researched and found it was true it just strikes me as utterly barbaric. There is NO other surgery which would be done on a newborn without GA, not in this century.

No it is not right to compare it with FGM, that is on another level, but it doesn't mean that it's not barbaric.

[BerstieSpotts]

Johanna that is uncalled for. Puppyfat's DS was having constant infections, she didn't decide to get him done because it "looks nicer".

[BasilBabyEater]

"Can you imagine the outcry if cells taken from FGM procedures were used to make some kind of luxury cosmetic product for men?"

Well actually, the result of the FGM procedure isn't a luxury product, it's an everyday one and it's called a wife. Funnily enough, although there's regular outcry about it, no-one in Britain has ever been prosecuted for it and it still goes on, outcry or not.

If you're unhappy about middle aged women bathing their faces in the penises of a thousand boys, complain to the patriarchs who promote the procedure. Feminists don't have the power to stop male circumcision, patriarchs do - they invented it and they're the ones who ensure it still happens.

[BerstieSpotts]

Just like if someone repeatedly suffers from tonsilitis we think nothing of them having their tonsils out.

[BasilBabyEater]

Yes. Tonsils are quite an important part of the lymphatic system aren't they? They're realised they shouldn't be removing them willy -nilly like they used to (excuse the turn of phrase on this thread) but they'll still do so as a last resort as I understand it.

[johanna55]

This thread is supposed to be about male circumcision yet every 2nd post is along the lines of "but FGM is far worse".

I don't think there's any debate over which is worse. But can we talk about male circumcision (when done on baby and young boys for reasons other than medical) without comparing it to FGM?

[sonlypuppyfat]

johanna I have reported you that was uncalled for the last thing on earth I would wish on anyone would be circumcision I was talking about my little boy being on constant antibiotics and crying in pain with the infections nothing at all to do with being clean.

[BasilBabyEater]

You were the one who made the comparison to FGM Johanna, so you can't complain if other posters come back at you also referencing it.

[BasilBabyEater]

And your comment to sonlypuppyfat was tacky and unpleasant.

[SanityClause]

Umm, johanna, I think you'll find that this thread was started in frustration that it seems to be impossible to discuss FGM without someone dragging circumsicion in, and saying its just as bad for boys.

The point is, it's not feminists who are advocating non-medical circumcision. In most cases, it's patriarchal religions. Feminists tend to be anti circumcision. Circumcision is not something women tend to inflict on their sons, but something men inflict on their sons.

[5madthings]

I am against mc unless for medical reasons, my ds1 almslt needed it down but thankfully treatmemt with a mild steroid cream and lot SFO fiddling by him meamt it was avoided. Very glad we sought a second opinion as the first Dr was all for cm.

[BerstieSpotts]

YY Sanity. Every time I've seen the debate on US forums it's overwhelmingly "My husband wants to get our son circumcised, but I don't."

[johanna55]

@sonlypuppyfat I thought the infections were caused by the operation? If it was done for medical reasons then I take back what I said.

[BerstieSpotts]

How on earth did you get that from the post? I think it was perfectly clear, and I think you were being goady.

[FreudiansSlipper]

feminist absolutely

against male circumcision tbh it is not something i do get that worked up by. i have muslim family members who are highly educated, circumcision is not a choice it is part of being a muslim that is not the same for fgm though it is part of a culture. i know many man that have been and are all happy to have been and many who truly believe it is done for the right reasons and they are very different as to why fgm is done

though saying that i do not see why it can not be done as a choice when older. also nearly all american men i know have been circumcised

just like to add i have not been intimate with all these men (apart from 2)

[DadWasHere]

But can we talk about male circumcision

And say what? What is there to talk about that has not already been talked about before? There is generally no particular medical need for it so I would not want it done on my son except on the recommendation of a doctor for a decent reason. It is out of fashion in the west but 50 years ago it was the opposite... 'fashion' being the operative word.

Do 99% of men who were circumcised without incident or complication care that they were cut without their consent? No. Do they know or care what benefits or troubles they are missing out on as adults? No. Do they regard it as being related to FGM, No.

[AuditAngel]

SillyBilly, he didn't have the treatment at that age. If you read my post it says "prior to our next trip to Spain".

It was nothing to do with retraction, it was to do with the fact it ballooned when he peed. He was toilet trained prior to the treatment.

Are you in a position to cast aspersions on our paediatrician's qualifications?

[OvaryAction]

If GA is not used for circumcisions and baby boys are strapped down, I can see comparisons with

I agree that it is not helpful for MRAs to wade into anti FGM campaigns shouting "what about male genital mutilation?!" But both FGM and MGM are horrific violations and breech human rights and must stop.

Btw, if you haven't signed this petition yet please do. We need another 15,000 signatures.

[famileyfood]

OvaryAction haven't you read the thread title? It says male not female.

You say is isn't helpful for men to join discussions on FGM to mention MGM, yet you are doing the exact same thing with the genders swapped.

[OvaryAction]

OOPS! so I have, what a plonker!

I did read the thread title but I also read the thread and ended up replying to later posts rather than the initial one.

[BasilBabyEater]

Oh familyfood, what about the wimminz?

Annoying isn't it?