AIBU? And I could do with some support

[kickassangel]

So, I grew up in a family where my father was not to be upset. What he wanted went. Apparently this was because he worked, so we all had to be sympathetic and he never had to do the dishes, or vacuum etc.

I hated it, he gets very upset very easily, is pretty OCD about routine and people not touching his things etc. I think of my childhood as unhappy and me being controlled a lot.

Now I have been staying with my sister and family. Today we were getting ready for a big party tomorrow for my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. My sister, 2 nieces and dd and I have worked flat out all day. Her dh is in the garage doing work on a car. This is his hobby on one of his many classic cars, not an essential repair.

All day we have provided cups of tea and meals. Then my younger niece came in and said she's told her dad she was busy right now (she was) and if he wanted tea immediately he could make it himself. My sister sighed and said that she wished her daughter wouldn't upset him like that.

This is just my childhood all over again, isn't it? The father being the great I AM and no one else is allowed to upset him or contradict him. When not working he does what he wants, and everyone else does all the typical female servitude..

If I dared express such opinions I would be told that I am awkward. AIBU to think like this. In my head I'm not, but everyone around me would tell me otherwise.

My mum lets me use her car. Pays for the insurance, full of petrol and I can go off in it for weeks.

Done without a hint of me owing anything in return. It really us about how we are meant to interact on a personal level.

My ex-pat brother and sister-in-law do this (rent a cottage) when they're back in the country. It saves them an exhausting hike round the country trying to see everyone. I suspect it may help with some of the family dynamics as it's very much 'their house, their rules'. You might find that makes it less suffocating.

I honestly don't think I could cope at your parents' house, OP. WTF, you're in the middle of getting your child her tea sorted out and you're meant to stop and walk over to a frying pan to get a grown man another fucking sausage? Jesus wept.

The even more galling thing is that if he outlives your mother, it will probably turn out he can perfectly well do stuff for himself (or can learn in nanoseconds) and the whole thing has just been a construct learnt from a previous generation. He's just been exploiting it because - let's face it, who wouldn't if you could be treated like a god-king in your own house?

My mum has had two knee replacements. He has had to learn. He does actually have trouble learning new things, and the instruction for the washing machine are taped onto the side of it. They have been therefor 4 years.

Many years ago mum's dad died. Mum went to stay with her mum for a week. When she came back she discovered he hadn't washed any dishes for the entire week. They were all neatly stacked above the dishwasher. That's just really freaky isn't it? He didn't know how to use the dishwasher and didn't know where the instruction book was. As they had a dishwasher he thought it would be wasteful to wash up by hand,but he didn't know how to use the dishwasher. See, he really isn't able to process new thoughts or change his response to things. I think there is a genuine problem for him, BUT constantly doing things for him, and not ever helping him to work it out himself is not good. Only he's 81now so won't change.

And it still doesn't make it right to for e everyone else to comply with him rather than trying to deal with him.

No, I think you're trying to see some kind of learning difficulty when there isn't one (based on your description). He didn't know how to load the dishwasher and washing dishes isn't his job, so he just left them out of the way, which involved stacking them neatly so they didn't fall over. If he'd run out of dishes he'd have figured something out (even if it was 'go and buy more').

I appreciate at 81 he's unlikely to read The Women's Room and suddenly be marching with Germaine Greer but lots of older men do find themselves suddenly having to make do when their wives are no longer able. My grandad has to do all the cooking now, having never lifted a single finger to help in the house the entire duration of his working career, including when he was out of work in the winters after the war (when construction was a seasonal job). He's 89.

It seems unlikely that a man who's managed to raise a family, buy houses and cars, and presumably hold down a job, is incapable of working a household appliance with instructions (washing machine) or figuring out how to work one (dishwasher.) He was making a statement.

Like tripbot's granddad, my stepfather had never cooked more than bacon & egg before his wife died. He now wins awards for his preserves, cakes, and other produce. His casseroles are to die for. He was 81 when she died. The difference is attitude: he said he realised what a failure it was to be unable to feed himself well. I agree with him!

... he could have phoned someone for advice, couldn't he? Let me guess, his 'learning difficulty' prevents him taking instruction Can he drive, or does your mother do that for him as well?

Every new thing he needs instructions or someone to teach him. Even when it is something that would benefit him. If it is something like a dishwasher but a new model he can't just work it out, he goes exactly by the instruction book. He now does all the dishwasher stuff to the extent that no one else is allowed to put the dirty dishes in. He has been using the washing machine for 4 years. If someone removed the instructions he would freeze, stand there bemused, shout for someone to come and help him. Obviously, after 4 years he should cope without the instructions, but changing something would frek him out too much.

My mum gives him verbal instructions all the time they drive. He can drive by himself, but freaks out and gets really stressed going anywhere new.

Remote controls and computers are beyond him completely.

Dsis and I never once as teenagers took advantage of this to program the car stereo to our favorite channels rather than his or mums. Oh no, never. Not that he could tell the difference between Steve Wright and Terry Woga.

Oh and he. Got forced into early retirement when new computer technology came in and he couldn't keep up with it.

OK, Kickass, I apologise for taking the piss. He does seem to suffer from extremely rigid thinking. You will, therefore, never be able to alter him (not that it'd be wise or respectful to try,) but neither do you have to please him. Let him be OK with his boxed-in mind.

So what would have happened if you'd calmly instructed him to fetch another sausage?

He it his own sausage. It was mum who thought I should jump up and do it for him.

He kind of accepts that when I'm around he has to do more himself. Thinking about it we get on better when mum not around as she isn't there telling me off if I don't immediately do what he wants. He is a little more pro active and I find it easier to be tolerant. He is more likely to ask for help politely.

I really think she sees her role as the self sacrificing wife, and that other women should fall in line. Hence the stress and telling off when I don't.

Now my sister seems to be the same with her 2 dds.

I think carefully about when I tell dd she should do what dh wants, or if he should be the one to compromise.

Oh, and there is no problem with taking the piss. I do when I can get away with it.

I'm sure your thoughtful investments in DD's independence will pay off :) I was thinking, earlier, about how nice you & your DH sound. His mother winds you up even more than your own so, between the pair of you, you could have created a hugely dysfunctional marriage through simultaneously trying to escape parental patterns, while repeating them. It's marvellous that, by contrast, you support each other.

Perhaps your mum has determined that good/adult women should be like her in order to feel validated in her own choices. It would explain her attachment to the theory, especially if her own mother was a bit of a doormat - or was rejected by her father as too independent? She'd not have made the choice consciously, however.

In demanding that you change to fit her template, she is disrespecting you - almost refusing to accept who you are. That's painful! She's wrong to do this, but it would also be wrong to give in for the sake of a quiet life. When she says you're harsh or not an adult, she's making you 'not-OK'. People generally do that when they need to reassure themselves they are OK. I think you will be able to reject your mother's slurs, and your sister's, without making a war out of it.

I'm getting a picture of your dad as someone who has a family template in his mind, with a slot for primary female/wife/personal assistant, then smaller but similar slots for daughters. When you're on your own with him, you go into the primary female slot and, therefore, he would have listened to you about the car seat had your mother not been there. Does that sound about right? It sounds very bleak, emotionally. I feel sad for the children you were, and happy that you found your means of rebellion through channel-switching and suchlike.

Oh, yes, that last bit about my dad and us all fitting different slots sounds very true. I also agree that mum feels rejected or criticized wheni don't fit into my role.

Dh and I do not have a great marriage, but we certainly don't have the same kind of dysfunction. He only gets 2 weeks holiday, so uses that as an excuse to never come to the UK, which means I do all the family contact, and he avoids it completely. He wold happily never see his mother again, but is too scared of the conflict that would arise.

I seriously starting to think that family living is just a bad idea overall.

Well, some - well-qualified, but unpopular - research indicates that personality disorders & other serious mental issues are far more prevalent in societies where people still live in close, extended family groups.

Seems very likely to me!

And yet that setup seems so idealized. I think I would have been sectioned if I needed to live close with my family. Or I would have run away. I week makes me want to do that, can you imagine living like that?

My sisters dead FIL used to just extend his arm out in the air w/ his empty tea cup in it when he wanted 'filling up'. Sis would pander to him. However every Christmas i would visit to find him there and i would make tea for all. If he held his cup cup like that w/ no acknowledgement, then he'd be the only person not to get a cup.

I just didn't care whether he liked me or not TBH.

YANBU. DN.

That cup of tea thing! That is exactly what happened! It has changed now that my mum is less able to do things, but dear lord you just brought back a vivid memory from childhood tea times.

And if I made a comment, I was told not to be silly, it was just convenient.

Christ. After the 'Asda Mum' Christmas ad last year, let's hope Asda never visit your parents' house as the inspiration for this year's Christmas ad!

I would love to see some rl Christmas houses in adverts. Can we get the bit where my dad compliments my mum on cooking the food so well, and my mum compliments him on growing the vegetables?