Not putting the man in your life at the centre of your life

[BasilBabyEater]

I came across this really interesting article this morning and thought I'd share

feministcurrent.com/7784/on-feminism-writing-and-doing-womanhood-wrong/

Am still thinking about it so am not going to comment but thought others might like to mull it over too.

Petey, why are you so invested in blaming the woman for all of this ?

Women don't have the choice, they don't have the resources to change things, they don't have the support of society.

Recognise that your reality isn't that of most women.

Annie, it might not be that the man comes first or is head of the household, more fear of the man leaving if he doesn't get his way? And thinking that it'd be hard to be a single parent (especially for those who are currently SAHMs) and hard to find a new partner who'd be better.

For the most part these are not horrible men either.

madamelebean sounds tricky! economics has a part too, often it makes financial sense in the short-term for the higher earner to work more, but the impact can be that the lower earner remains so and also has less job satisfaction. I know one man who is PT because he is the lower earner, he felt resentful so is returning to FT work too.

Well how come its the reality for me then? Im not special and just a normal 29 year old. I just dont feel guilt and have better things to be doing than running after some man. Dh said when he met me I like that you are strong and dont take shit off people, and I genuinely think most men think that except the dicks.

Think about the 'nice' guy thing. I do everything for a woman why doesnt she like me and go for someone else? Well we all know the answer its because the woman doesnt respect him and thinks hes weak. Its exactly the same the other way round with this.

Do you have children petey?

Yeah 2 we have a 5 year old and a 1 year old. Been married nearly 10 years.

Petey women are more likely to question themselves and think they may be being unreasonable because they are brainwashed by society into thinking their role is to support and play second fiddle to a man in return for "security". It's not as simple as saying women need to up their self esteem. Of course they do but society does not celebrate women who are successfully in their own right. Rather, it often vilifies them. So to stand up and say oi, this is me and this is what I want, is really scary.

I agree with your point about women not respecting "weak" men either, but I think it is a lot harder for women to not fall into that role.

I used to be in a very unequal marriage. Yes my H worked hard, but so did I and I either did or organised EVERYTHING to do with our finances, domestic life and children.

Then I got divorced and quickly realised that nothing much changed!

I now have a new partner who is an academic, but he is totally different. He doesnt see why I should do everything and he cooks, cleans, walks the dogs and sorts stuff out as much as I do. I dont ask him, he just does stuff. He has even driven 2 hours to make my breakfast when I was ill.

I feel lucky that I have met someone who is not only lovely, but pulls his weight at home. My female friends think he is amazing - which when you think about it is a sad relection of how unusual it is to have a man doing his share of domestic work in a relationship

Its not harder its just that women that do it justify it. Same as men that do it eg if only women changed and liked us 'nice' guys.It must be something wrong with women.

Petey, seriously, do you like women at all because you're not exactly supportive ?

The 'I'm alright, Jack' posts, clichés and stereotypes are giving a pretty good impression that you think women are weak.

"it must be something wrong with women"

The writer of this article probably has trouble finding a man because she has such a horribly low opinion of men.

Besides, what's wrong with porn?

Then you are blind to all the pressure from society??

I feel it is my responsibility as a feminist to all our daughters to lean hard the other way. I will never be a sahm until there are equal numbers of sahds. (Well even then I wouldn't but then not out of principle. for other reasons).

In the recent series of Made in Chelsea, character named Spencer treated his gf like shit, which she put up with, was "weak".

He dumped her. Got together with a new "strong" gf who said she "wouldn't take any shit". He still cheated on the new gf because he is a twat. She dumped him immediately.

I guess your argument is that the first gf should've had more self respect. Sure, she would've been well advised to LTB.

But does your argument extend to emotional abuse? Physical abuse? Rape?

It encourages wankers like you.

I am supportive in the sense I think its utterly ridiculous some women put up with this in 2013. Yeah it pisses me off tbh. I hope through my dds seeing their mum not put up with it then they definitely wont. However if some of you dont prioritise your needs then your dds will just repeat the cycle, then your grandkids.

I feel that way too, madamelebean, although feel conflicted because I respect that people make different chiices and think we should value child-rearing more. But it 's not truly freedom of choice if so many more women make the SAH ( or even PT) "choice".

Loopytiles I said thats what the 'nice guys say 'Its not me its the women there is something wrong with them. Why wont they change?'When really its the men that need to respect themselves.

I think anyone with self respect would see Spencer from Made in Chelsea is a complete dick head and would hope most would have better judgement

Made in Chelsea doesn't help anyone in any way in general really. The people on that are exactly the kind of people you aim not to be in life. They disgust me. Thing is every woman has the right to leave their partner for any reason they like and the same the other way, it's nobody else's responsibility is it, unless it's abusive of course.

some men are horrible and so are some women, you just have to make sure you take no s**t from anyone.

Loopy I totally agree. And think fathers would also like more balance in their lives.

I agree that women not having enough financial security plays a big part, whether this is due to them being the lower-paid partner or being a SAHM. Women without financial independence will be more worried about rocking the marital boat by demanding more equality in the home. But again, these women are often the lower-paid partner because they have been the one to sacrifice their careers either completely or by doing reduced hours once the kids came along, because it was "their" responsibility to do so.

It's a vicious circle.

MadameLeBean - dh works 4 days. Its good as its free childcare for me to work om the Friday, and he absolutely loves it. He meets up with a group of young dads 23-32 and takes the kids places. They often go to breakfast, play cafe, and shopping in town.

You obviously have a good, balanced set-up, petey, and will be showing your DC a great example of how relationships should be. But that doesn't mean you should be so dismissive of other's women's experiences and situations. On the surface, I agree that women should be more assertive and make sure they are in equal relationships. But then again, men should be more fair about it in the first place.

So they question is, what can reasonably be done to bring this about? You know, instead of just saying "well obviously everyone should just be like me", because everyone is very different to you.

Well my advice from my mum was always 'I married in the 70s and didnt do everything for your dad like a lot of my friends who quit their jobs at 21. I have always worked,and never been a doormat and its what men like and why I have been happily married so many years (40 and counting now) Most of my friends who stopped are now divorced and they never did anything else with their lives and were just 'mum'. Be your own person, always work, have your own interests and dont take rubbish from anyone.' Oh and never have a child until your married, and have been a few years.