Why does it seem so few women are aware of this wrt reporting rape?

[LucyTheLittlestLioness]

I made a statement to the police last year about an ex partner who was very sexually abusive. I had reasons why i did not want an investigation to take place. However I did want to, if possible, make a statement that could be useful to someone else if he treated them in a similar way and they reported him to the police.

I read something somewhere that gave me the impression it was possible to do this, it may have been on MN.

I managed to do what I wanted, I made a statement to be used as police intelligence, rather than making an allegation which would have had to be investigated.

But it wasn't straightforward to do this, and I am wondering why not.

Wouldn't lots more women come forward to report rape if it was more widely known that you could do this? Is that the problem, that too many women would make statements?

Or is the problem more that this would seem unfair on the men who had statements made against them, as the police intelligence would be held about them and they would be unaware and unable to defend themselves?

Or is it that the police have to focus on investigating rape allegations, and don't want to just be collecting intelligence?

An unproven statement would surely be worthless wouldn't it? Innocent until proven guilty? What would stop me (for example) making a statement against some bloke who happened to piss me off one day? If there was no need for proof but could be used against someone should another report be made where would that leave the justice system? Would a slightly dubious accusation potentially be underpinned by this unproven statement leading to a conviction where there previously wouldn'thave been - and perhaps shouldn't be.

its not actually practicable to make a statement and then not want to follow through with an investigation.

all you have done is make an allegation and that may have been submitted as intelligence by the sound of it.

when giving a statement to police there are a series of questions (ticky boxes) on the reverse of the first page - the first one is "is the victim willing to give evidence in court?"
ticking NO renders the statement useless really - it means there will likely be no investigation due to no evidence - so will be screened and probably filed - did you make an allegation of rape and actually give a full statement?
if so it will have been kept on record but filed undetected.
anything less than this will just be used and recorded as intel - i can understand why some women would see this as a compromise but it proves nothing. its just an allegation. any one can allege anything against anyone at any time - as far as helping future victims it will be rendered useless.

if you give a statement then the supposition is that you are willing to aid any investigation. If you give a statement, and then say you are not willing to aid the investigation the CPS could in theory follow through with an investigation and summons you to court (though in practice this is very very doubtful - no evidence from a victim usually = no case)

" However I did want to, if possible, make a statement that could be useful to someone else if he treated them in a similar way and they reported him to the police. "

in what way would you expect it to be useful? if no allegations/charges brought then there is no investigation and no admission/proof of guilt. this couldn't be used in any court case and so wouldn't help anyone.

(most victims of sexual assault/rape are offered a video interview anyway instead of written statement - this can be used as evidence in chief in court and save the victim from facing her attacker - if this isnt enough then special measures can be put in place so that the victim can give evidence from another room via video link or from behind a screen - but obviously this only happens if the case actually gets to court in the first place - and that requires evidence - the victims statement is key evidence in this)

....also -
the intel may well have been submitted and recorded but for any future allegations this information or intel couldnt be brought up or used in any case - there are very few crimes where "bad character" evidence can be used in a current case.

i can fully understand why you may want to try and help any future victim without actually wanting to commit to an investigation, and im sure you had your reasons. i fully understand this, but its likely that while this may have been submitted as "intel" it wouldnt really be of use to any future victim.

thats why its not generally done. It sounds as though the officer you spoke to wanted to help you feel better and without any investigation this was the only option left open to them, i have done this myself when a victim wants something recorded but isnt willing to give evidence - it gives the impression you are doing something. (thats not true for all intel - it can be extremely useful and forces now routinely swap intel with each other)

its always worth submitting intel, and i do it routinely. Im sorry you had such a horrible experience and you have done the right thing if that is all you felt you could manage.

Perhaps it was mentioned in relation to recent historical abuse cases.

I suppose it's use might be that if other allegations are made women might feel more confident to go to court.

I do feel a little uneasy at records being kept that the accused has not been able to defend against our even know about.

I totally agree with you. It would be extremely useful. Say you had a person who had a series of people who had alleged stuff, similar crimes from unrelated people. Then that person is worth taking a look at our keeping an eye on. Also if they had say 6 different people who had reported them and they went back and said actually there are 6 of you so if you all tell what happened to the court there would be a great chance of conviction I reckon many would say k OK then.

Am man like ian Huntley with a string if accusations but no convictions would be more likely to b be caught.

Surprised at the response here. I would say all victims should be encouraged to report crime irrespective of what the outcome is likely to be. Women at the moment don't report as they think there's no point and to see this idea bolstered on this thread including by a police officer is surprising and depressing tbh.

I'm with you anyway op :)

And this one of many reasons why the legal and justice system is not set up for women and certainly not set up for crimes such as rape and DV.

I'm with you too OP.

Of course that would mean the police sharing info and working in a joined up way but I think it is something to aim for.

Police gather intelligence on suspected terrorists and the like, perfectly reasonable to do it for suspected serious sex offenders (to the person upthread who said this would be unfair).

Meanwhile loads of DNA evidence of suspected sex offenders is being deleted as we speak.

Hmm, Vicar, what do you think would be a better way of gathering together allegations against individuals, where there isn't necessarily the evidence/witness confidence from any one victim? When you look on your police computery thing, does it record whether there are previous allegations against that person?

I went to the police and went through statement taking and video statement recording and he got away with it.

I have been informed on MN that should anyone else report him for similar then I might be called up again and my case reopened.

Had I have gone to the police and asked to wrote a statement for the future with no arrests etc I dont know how serious they would take me. I could go in and make allegations about anyone so its on their file.

SPs maybe if the police had reports from a bunch of other women as well they might have been able to use that in some way to get a conviction.

I am sorry that your attacker walked free.

And tbh the police should take all reports of crime seriously, whether the victim feels able to go to court or not.

Also I think it's a lot to ask someone who's just been violently attacked a yes/no question about whether they would be willing to face their attacker in court. They probably don't feel capable of very much at all at that moment, but that doesn't mean if evidence was gathered etc that they wouldn't at that point be keen to help put him away.

Surely there are plenty of cases where the victim can't testify, and there is no initial certainty as to whether a crime has been committed (for example, where someone has gone missing), but that doesn't stop the police investigating?

As much as I would love for him to get whats coming to him I dont want that phone call as it means another woman has gone through the same.

If I got the phone call I would cooperate as much as possible so we would get to see him behind bars but no phone call also means no one has come forward so hopefully it will have just been me.

belatedmaybe but why should an unproven statement be worthless? The police have lots of unproven information don't they, in relation to other types of crimes? Isn't the police database full of this type of info?

Vicar I have seen your posts before so I do realize you know what you are talking about, but it does seem unclear as what you say doesn't fit with my experience. I was very clear when I first contacted the police that I didn't want an investigation, and asked them whether it would be possible to just make a statement. They said yes it was fine to do that. I then spent a good few hours with someone at one of the specialist centres. I don't understand why the police would have bothered doing that with me, when I was very clear at the outset I didn't want an investigation. Surely that is a waste of resources? Are the police unable to say to women that it's not helpful to do this, because it would look like they are not taking seriously allegations of rape? So instead they are effectively wasting their own time? That seems depressing on a number of levels.

Presumably I am not the only person who has asked the police if I could do this, there must be many others, so why waste people's time if it isn't helpful

Btw they told me the information would be shared across 3 forces (as I live in one area, my ex lives in another, and at the time of the offences we both lived in a third area).

I thought it was worthwhile doing because of the particular nature of my relationship with this man. He was very sexually abusive over an extended period of time, I had very little support and very little relationship experience to compare with, and I became trapped in a relationship with him. Obviously I shouldn't have been with him for as long as I was, but it wasn't that simple to get away from him. Experiences whilst with him led to me having another difficult relationship (though I realize that wasn't directly his fault). He had very set views on women, and I can't see those views ever changing, therefore I see no reason why he wouldn't behave in very similar ways in his subsequent relationships. And if I was ever informed that he had done similar to someone else, I might reconsider and be prepared to give evidence.

But from what Vicar says the system just isn't set up to deal with this type of situation.

And I didn't give a video statement,I was encouraged to do that but in the end I couldn't see the point as the level of detail that you need to give doesn't fit with the kind of situation I was in. I could not, for example, remember details like the clothes I was wearing, because I was in a relationship where it was happening too frequently to recall that level of detail, if that makes sense. Of course if something happens once you remember the snapshots of detail, but in the context of a DV relationship you don't so much. Well I didn't anyway.

well - if it helped you achieve some kind of 'closure' and gave intel then of course it was worth doing.

i get paid whatever i do - so i tend to do what a victim wants within reason.
but
without a victim willing to give evidence there is usually no case - the CPS are reluctant to run with cases where effectively there is no "victim" - and thats how the law tends to see these things if there is no formal complaint.

intel is dealt with in a specific way - it is viewed by officers within that department and they sift through and collate it. They disseminate it as they see fit.

anyone can give a statement alleging a crime has happened. However - if they then do not want to follow through with an investigation the crime is generally filed as undetected.

with an allegation as serious as rape or sexual assault this would be put to the CPS for a decision on whether to run with it anyway, without a victims evidence, or not.
in my humble experience, without a victims evidence or cooperation the CPS dont tend to run a case. It can still be useful if a crime was recorded - if this happened you would have been given a crime reference number. (not the same as an incident number) and the crime would be filed as undetected.
if a crime was recorded then that information would appear on the police national computer with a suspects details.

fwiw i always encourage women to give statements even if they do not want to go ahead - i have done this often in cases of domestic abuse or violence - because it still gives us something to put to the CPS who ultimately make the decision

its just that in my experience, the CPS tend not to run with cases if the victim will not cooperate in the investigation.
i have known one case of DV where the CPS said run it anyway but it was a fairly serious case....

each case would be taken on merit and the CPS would look at whether it is in the public interest to pursue it and whether there is a reasonable chance of conviction.

hope this clarifies how the police deal with complaints in which the victim does not want or feels they cannot assist.
its not worthless. Its just that the CPS dont always run a case in these circumstances - and that can lead to disappointment.

I did a video statement and it wasn't just once this man did it either. It was several times over a period of time. I wasn't asked about clothing or anything just asked to tell them what happened each time.

My case ran but didn't go anywhere. I think if I had said well I dont what to press charges but here is a statement they wouldn't have took it.

if your case ran and went to court then presumably the jury didnt convict sp?

the most that any police force can do is present the evidence to the CPS for a charging decision.
after that its up to a jury to convict - and is totally out of police hands. im sorry you didnt get the result you hoped for.

SP sorry your case didn't go as you had hoped.

Vicar what you have said sounds very clear, thank you for explaining. What still confuses me is the way in which I was led to think it was helpful to just give the statement, though I take your point that maybe they just thought it would give me some closure. Hmm. Also I didn't get the impression that all forces treat this type of information in the same consistent way, as your post implies. I know the person who interviewed me checked out how the info would be dealt with in the areas covered by the other forces, which seems odd based on what you say. I believe what you are telling me, I suppose I am just feeling as though my experience doesn't reassure me that there is the consistency that you imply there is in practice (if that makes sense). I might go back to the person who I spoke to at the time and ask more questions and see what response I get.

lucy - i would always encourage women to give a statement - even if they feel unable to follow through with an investigation. Its just that very often the CPS wont run a case without a victims cooperation in the case - so often means the case goes no where.

thats not to say you should not give a statement. I would always encourage a statement - i have taken very detailed statements of "non complaint" before now - because that way it still goes before the CPS.

were you given a crime number? if so - then yes - it was useful in that it would be recorded and he would be named as a suspect on file.