'Cock tease'

[TrickyBiscuits]

DH and I just been discussing this expression and I'm having difficulty explaining why I find it so repulsive.

My usually liberal and progressive DH has shocked me to be honest: he says that there are women who deliberately go out in skimpy outfits and act in a sexually provocative way only to later make it clear to a guy they were flirting with that sex absolutely isn't on the cards. I say they're perfectly entitled to do this, he agrees, but says in some women it's a form of deliberate manipulation, hence the derogative label being applied to them.

I think there are 2 main things which are pissing me off the most:

The phrase itself (it's actually 'virgin bitch' in his native language which I think is even worse) is so bloody dehumanizing. As if female behaviour should automatically be viewed through a penis-shaped lens.

And also, the spectrum of application is huge... where does dressing attractively and behaving in a flirty manner end (if that's even allowed ) and 'cock teasing' begin? it just seems to be a label to exert power.

Bloody hell I'm cross. I'm having difficulty articulating myself.

Any thoughts?

Bran - to describe flirting as "an insane thing that people do" whilst claiming to be "good at social cues" seems very odd to me.

Flirting may be something slightly beyond simple chatting, but it's also a very natural part of the human experience - the dance of attraction and relationship if you like.

It's very simplistic to say regular chat = good
chat with an element of attraction and flirtation = bad

Very often at the very beginning of the dance you cannot know where it might lead. People (men) should be more charmed by the interest and possibilities and less entitled as to the outcome.

women arent universally cock teases.
its a thing some women do, and men do, obvs without the cock.

Just being overly flirty, trying to actively make someone think theyre about to get sex, but theyre actually not. Playing with peoples feelings

DS would describe heavy, invasive flirting as 'an insane thing people do' but he knows he finds reading social cues tricky.
Which is why he is rarely spontaneous about instigating anything with anyone unless he really knows them. From hugging a small child to joking to arranging social encounters.

well two of my kids are autistic so im probably a bit spectrummy myself ;)

I'm more attention deficit spectrummy myself - quite good at reading the signals in the moment if a little overwhelmed with how many there can be in a busy environment, but relying on the immediate environmental cues because I have a completely shit fish like memory and zero concentration.

I sometimes think it's slightly the opposite end of the spectrum or different brain style to autistic spectrum - where my understanding is there's often a good memory and reliance on routines but not so good reading of the immediate environment in the present moment ?

Anyway, with or without flirtation, hope we can be friends !
(Is that too confusing ?)

ok ok, just dont start rubbing my leg or nowt, unless youre gonna put out! ;)

LOL

Maybe if people didn't think they were about to have sex until they were actually moments out from actually having it, then this wouldn't be a problem. And never thought they were entitled to it. And didn't get filled with resentment when "denied". Is your husband saying that no flirting should happen unless sex is on the cards? Will he issue a handy checklist of male/female (and gay/gay) interactions that qualify as flirting?

This soooo ties in with the whole consent thing, doesn't it? The "popular" concept of it does not fit that which is legal.

Yy eyesunder. Women can stop asking men to buy drinks for all their friends and men can stop saying yes if they are asked.

If I thought someone was talking to me just so I'd buy them stuff, I'd be very and I wouldn't really want to have sex with them.

I think the behaviour Sunrising is describing is rude and unpleasant. Failing to see where 'cock-teasing' comes into it.

Mind you I had a little chuckle with "some Men used shamelessly by some Women".

Scallops, the cockteasing is because the promise of sex in exchange for goods like drinks is of course implicit.

... In Bizarro World where all sex can be bought, it just depends how you pay.

I think what strikes me most about the subject this thread throws up is how we manage to balls up what should be a fun and exciting slice of life. I am not sure in all my years of dating I have ever come across a cock tease.

Maybe some do, but then again maybe some people are practising social skills, or just happen to enjoy the company of the opposite sex. I don't see the problem with giving people the benefit of the doubt. I mean after all wouldn't it be better to have social settings as relaxed opportunities to meet new people and let the stresses of everyday life ebb away as opposed to just creating new ones?

As a bloke I enjoy the privilege that I can pop out, strike up a conversation with a girl and there is zero pressure on me to provide anything beyond not being boring. I can only imagine how annoying it would be if there was some social expectation to provide sex. I wouldn't like it, I don't expect anyone to put up with it. In fact I would rather such pressures didn't exist, because as I said above less pressure = more relaxation, and that will make all our nights out more fun.

"the cockteasing is because the promise of sex in exchange for goods like drinks is of course implicit." Of course. Silly me!

Actually forgive me if this had already been mentioned, but I missed it when I scanned the thread. The fundamental problem with this as a term is that can only be applied to a woman (or I suppose gay men, but I think you know where I am headed with this being gender related).

Wether this sort of behaviour goes on at all is actually immaterial. Men and Women can and have led each other on since time immemorial, but simply by making it about cocks bieng teased by implication makes women the guilty party, and that's the part that's ridiculous.

I almost hate to say it as I feel I am shifting towards an interpetation of feminism I always felt was perhaps being over sensitive, but it looks as if a lot of the gender based or linked derogatory remarks betray either a scrutiny female behaviour is held to that men simply aren't (much like the slut/stud incongruency), or potentially something even more sinister.

I will consider all this in more detail.

Hang on a sec I may have missed it as am very tired, but are we accepting that men who buy drinks for flirty women are entitled to sex?

I must say, when flirty people of any gender ask me to buy them drinks I say "No". Why could those young men not say No, too, if they didn't want to buy drinks? How very strange.

Also - bollocks to "don't flirt" Everybody flirts, even those of you who claim not to. Some of us flirt a lot. It's a social mannerism, not a contract.

Which we is that?
No, whatever the hopes and expectations of one party might be, no one is entitled to sex. Certainly not as a transaction in exchange for drinks. Or a meal. or any other exchange.

just because someone may be doing stuff that would make someone think they were a cock tease, doesnt translate to anyone being entitled to having sex with them.

Garlic if it was my post that confused then it was sarcastic, of course drink buying doesn't equal sex.

:) It wasn't your post, Doc, I think I was looking for a clear refutation of Sunrise's apparent point ... now I'm less tired, I can see there were a few sarcastic posts

.. actually, there are not-sarcastic replies, as well ... maybe I need another lie-down!

Buffy the way I like to think of it is that feminism is a conversation the human race is having with itself. Apart from central pillars that most agree on, there is a lot of sometimes at first glance conflicting ideas.

I think for me a lot of these elements can be reconciled with more thought and discussion. Just as I think feminism itself can be reconciled into a safe and equal society. I also cannot stress this enough feminism benefits men. The advance made so far means I can be very hands on with my baby son, who is the single most important and rewarding part of my life. This would have been unthinkable several generations ago.

In fact a worrying thought that just occurs to me is that I still have my male privilege in addition to benefits afforded by feminism making things a bit more equal. If I were a woman I think I would be incandescent with annoyance at the subtle and not so subtle ways the deck is still stacked against my gender.

This thread has underlined to me how we use language to maintain the status quo. Taking cock-tease as an example we take leading people on (an understandably bad thing to do, which most reasonable people would agree is undesirable behaviour) then we attach a gender tag to it for no other reason than to undermine half of us.