Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

'Cock tease'

93 replies

TrickyBiscuits · 07/07/2013 12:35

DH and I just been discussing this expression and I'm having difficulty explaining why I find it so repulsive.

My usually liberal and progressive DH has shocked me to be honest: he says that there are women who deliberately go out in skimpy outfits and act in a sexually provocative way only to later make it clear to a guy they were flirting with that sex absolutely isn't on the cards. I say they're perfectly entitled to do this, he agrees, but says in some women it's a form of deliberate manipulation, hence the derogative label being applied to them.

I think there are 2 main things which are pissing me off the most:

The phrase itself (it's actually 'virgin bitch' in his native language which I think is even worse) is so bloody dehumanizing. As if female behaviour should automatically be viewed through a penis-shaped lens.

And also, the spectrum of application is huge... where does dressing attractively and behaving in a flirty manner end (if that's even allowed Hmm) and 'cock teasing' begin? it just seems to be a label to exert power.

Bloody hell I'm cross. I'm having difficulty articulating myself.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Eyesunderarock · 07/07/2013 22:02

But yes, it is used as a justification for rape. Angry

TheDoctrineOfAllan · 07/07/2013 22:10

Tricky, no doubt there are people who set out on a night out to steal a couple of wallets, or start a punch up or whatever.

But those people are in a small minority and don't have a phrase all of their own that can then unsubtly be broadened to mean something That for some men seems as wide as "woman who won't fuck me even though I want her too"

TheDoctrineOfAllan · 07/07/2013 22:12

Are there really a lot of women he or his friends have come across who explicitly say "I want to have sex with you" and then head off?

Or might there be some misinterpretation?

Eyesunderarock · 07/07/2013 22:14

I doubt it Doc, he's probably meaning heavy flirting, body contact and suggestive comments which is then used to justify 'She wants to have sex'

JugglingFromHereToThere · 07/07/2013 22:17

"Anyone has the right to refuse sex, at any time, for any reason"

That seems a very powerful statement, given our society.
Should be quite simple and straight-forward, but is often over-complicated.
Fortunately it's something that has been reasonably well respected in my encounters and relationships - there are good men out there too.

Something to talk with DD about - and DS Smile

Original poster
TrickyBiscuits · 07/07/2013 22:19

Eyesunderarock yes, unfortunately, that sort of thinking has been around for as long as I can remember as an adult, I would've hoped that young women would be past that thinking by now Sad

TheDoctrineOfAllan it's used purposefully to undermine, denigrate, and exert power.

OP posts:
Eyesunderarock · 07/07/2013 22:28

Yes Juggling, I talked about the issues with both of my children. It isn't the responsibility of only one sex, we can only change inequalities and preconceptions if both sexes are involve and aware.

Original poster
TrickyBiscuits · 07/07/2013 22:43

Sorry, I cross posted there with a few posts.

Eyes and Rock I don't know, it does seem improbable, although I can remember saying a few sexually explicitly things in my past, but would I have changed my mind if I then realised the man was a cock? Definitely!

I'm not particularly cross with DH I don't think, I don't think he sees the layers of significance though. He is one of the 'good men'; has never shown anything other than a belief in respect and equality, I think that why I'm so dumbfounded by the use of the term though Confused

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfAllan · 07/07/2013 23:40

Tell him that you see him as one of the good guys, but that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Tricky, you could have changed your mind for any reason or no reason, as could the man. Does your DH call you a cocktease if you snog him at 8pm but don't want sex at 10pm? I'm sure he doesn't. So why is it different?

SolidGoldBrass · 08/07/2013 12:40

I think, on balance, I have met more men who were into this sort of spiteful teasing to boost their own egos ie flirting with you all night then backing off, sometimes in a very rude manner. My mates and I used to label certain men 'fanny-teasers' because that's exactly what they were.

But I agree with other posters that a lot of men seem to feel that a woman's existence is 'proof' that she's available for him to have sex on, and a refusal on her part is simply wrong.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 08/07/2013 12:46

"to have sex on" Hmm Urghh ! SGB

But yes, it's like the obsession with whether or not you're with anyone (a man) Like, whether or not you're already owned by someone (spoken for to put it naicely)

Bloody hell, we've got such a long way to go for respect and equality haven't we ?

Branleuse · 08/07/2013 12:49

I think its a real thing that a lot of young immature women do when they feel confident the more sexual attention they get but they dont want to have sex. its horrid. some men do it to but obviously the connotations are different, but the whole thing is hideous.
just dont flirt with people if you dont want to get it on. its confusing

scallopsrgreat · 08/07/2013 12:52

"some men do it to but obviously the connotations are different" Really?

What is wrong with flirting? Why should you not flirt with someone you may not want to have sex with? And how do you know these women are actually 'flirting' (whatever that may mean as it is hugely subjective) and not just have a conversation?

SolidGoldBrass · 08/07/2013 13:51

Like I said, I know more men who tease deliberately and spitefully. Whether it's to prove a point to their friends ('moose hunting' for example) or because they want to 'put a woman in her place' ie punish her for something by reminding her that the most important thing about her is her desirability. I'm not denying that there are some women who are spiteful as well, of course.

But flirting can either be a way of making conversation (which is only percieved by one party as flirting anyway) or it can be checking someone out and then deciding that acutally s/he is not as desirable as you thought and backing off, which is not wrong.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 08/07/2013 14:12

Anyway isn't flirting just sending out the message that you like someone and may find them attractive, and are enjoying talking with them and spending time with them ?
Anyone can see this doesn't always lead to choosing to have sex with them!
Anyone who thinks it does is an idiot surely ?

slug · 08/07/2013 14:55

With respect to the unstoppable male sexuality meme, when my male students used to run that one by me with all due seriousness (they really seemed to believe it) I would ask them what happens if their mother walked in on them having a wank. Wink

Branleuse · 08/07/2013 16:15

flirting is acting like you may be sexually interested in someone. Its not just being chatty.
Some people just do it. Im really bad at it, and it freaks me out when people flirt with me. If someones throwing out signs that theyre interested in me, when theyre actually not, just so they can bolster their own self esteem by being able to get the attention and then reject, than thats cruel.
Cock tease/chuff tease are horrible words for it, but its an insane thing that people do, especially for people that actually feel the flirting and then rejection on a more emotional level than just thinking with whats between their legs

GoshlyoHeavens · 08/07/2013 16:21

What's the equivilent man-wise?

Branleuse · 08/07/2013 16:33

when i say the connotations are different, im not using the right word. I mean the whole thing is different. I think the other way round, you get married men and women doing it. Being flirty and coming on to a people to prove their sexual prowess to themselves, even though they have no intention of going through with anything.

Im usually good with social cues etc, but flirting leaves me baffled and anxious. I just dont get it

GoshlyoHeavens · 08/07/2013 16:51

Men and women flirt, and wear things.

That seems to me different from attacking someone and forcing yourself on someone violently.

Sunrising33 · 08/07/2013 16:59

Hum having run a bar for (too) many years I've seen some Men used shamelessly by some Women. A typical scenerio would be the Woman being overly friendly "How about buying me a drink" leading to "how about buying my friends some drinks". After drinks are "procured" then Ladies in questions will often walk off without so much of a thanks or will say something doragatory about the guy to his face. Very often guys who are alone or a bit tipsy are targeted specifically. Believe me the situations are not of someone flirting then deciding "not for me" or just a nice chat. It really is exploitative. It's Women like that who turn me on to Feminism.

GoshlyoHeavens · 08/07/2013 17:11

Fraud is wrong, Sunrising, and vulnerability is exploited.

GoshlyoHeavens · 08/07/2013 17:16

Shitting nora, can someone else post here too?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 08/07/2013 17:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eyesunderarock · 08/07/2013 17:26

Some women may manipulate men into buying drinks for them and their friends, but it is still part of the assumption that the man is making that they can be bought.
Otherwise he'd just say 'Why should I buy a strange woman a drink? Let alone her friends'
Yes, I've seen women jiggle and squeak and do the helpless act to get whatever it is they want. The question for society is why does it so often work, and how can that be changed? How can this ridiculous barter/exchange system be ended?