Feeling a bit let down by 'the sisterhood'

[Hopingitwillallbefine]

I am a new(ish) mum to a dd (11 months) and have just returned to work full time. This was not a decision I took lightly but made for a number of reasons, including the fact that we really need the money for a deposit for a new house and I love my job and have worked hard to get where I am, and would like to continue to progress in my career. My DH also works full time. We are fortunate enough to have reasonable working hours (him 9-5, me 8-4) which mean that between us we are at home with dd until about 8.15am in the morning and from 5pm in the evening. Between 8.30 and 5pm dd is at nursery. We chose her nursery because we loved it immediately and continue to be impressed and happy with the quality and standard of care it offers. Dd LOVES nursery, has made a great bond with her keyworker and seems to have such lovely, fun and full days.

Apologies for the boring details of our life - all pretty normal stuff. However the reason for my post and what has really upset me/pissed me off in the past few months has been the attitudes of other women towards the decisions we have made as a family about working hours and childcare arrangements. I have lost count of the occasions that I have been met with undisguised horror, disgust or pity when I've told female friends or colleagues I am back at work full time. Not all of them, but enough to make me feel like a dreadful mother. Responses like "is there nothing you can economise on so that you can drop a day or two?" Or "god you poor thing, that must be miserable". Even my manager has asked me if i want to consider going part time now I am a mum. Similarly, I have been treated to a variety of unhelpful and at times offensive remarks from friends and colleagues about our decision to use a nursery including suggestions that we are risking our dd developing attachment disorder or questions like "is there no way your family could help?" (No), "wouldn't you at least prefer a childminder?" (No), "have you thought about how damaging it could be if your dd's keyworker left?" Etc etc.

These comments are so frequent that I now have a pre-prepared mini speech when people ask about work or childcare to try and head off all the criticisms and 'helpful suggestions'. What annoys me is the implicit assumption that obviously I am only back at work FT out of absolute necessity and that if there were any alternatives at all I would of course be working part time or not at all as all good mothers should - and to admit that I have chosen to return full time partly because I still give a toss about my career and enjoy being at work is tantamount to declaring that I couldn't care less about my dd. Further, I wouldn't dream of questioning another woman's childcare choices and have been really upset and surprised by how many women seem to think that nursery is virtual child abuse and it is their responsibility to educate me on the reasons why. But finally, and the reason for my post in this section of MN is that all of this, without exception has come from other women. Not one man has made me feel bad about my choices or questioned them in any way. Similarly, my husband, who earns exactly the same as me, has never been made to feel bad about being at work FT. Nobody has ever suggested that he might want to go part time now we have a child.

So I just feel a bit let down by women at the moment. I know it is impossible to 'have it all' and I'm not pretending otherwise, but I would like to continue to pursue my career while providing as much care, love and attention to my dd as I can. I love her more than I knew possible and love spending time with her. I feel genuinely excited every day when I go to pick her up and we have a lovely two hours together every evening after work when I am totally and utterly focused on her. We have lovely weekends as a family and spending time together having fun is so important to me. But I also love being at work and enjoy my day and feel so fulfilled by it. Shouldn't other women be supporting me and encouraging me, isn't this equality and freedom what we have fought for for years?

[boysrock]

Sorry to be so grim. [Wine]

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Everything boysrock said...

I am quite, erm, assertive and my responses on returning to work full time when DD was 4 months ranged from "I quite like a roof over my head" to "being at work is easier than full time parenting" but then realised that I don't have to justify myself to anyone and did just use the "it works for me". It really is no-one else's business and I wish I'd said that more often.

[garlicnutty]

A] Fuck them!

B] What Doc said.

C] What the others said about Patriarchy speaking in women's voices.

I disagree about non-existent 'sisterhood'. I'm quite sisterly, as are my women friends. To me, it is the female answer to men's endless recognition & bonding rituals, their automatic preference for another man over a woman for any purpose other than sexual & breeding (most would even prefer a man for domestic services, if they could afford one) and al the other manspeak backslapping procedures. And I think you see it all the time. My neighbours are not notably friendly, but it's always the women who stop for a few words and show an interest.

There are aggressively competitive men and women, whose aggression takes many forms. They are neither brotherly nor sisterly. Fuck them.

[passive-aggressive smile]

[DespicableYou]

I don't know many people who have their children in that level of childcare at that young an age.

Perhaps people are commenting as they feel it's unusual?

No need to say anything or feel defensive if your DD and your DH are happy.

I'd just ignore them.

[Hopingitwillallbefine]

Thanks everyone, all your replies have been helpful and supportive. I agree with everyone who has said who gives a toss what other people think, and I do try and tell myself this but in reality it is hard. Before I had dd I had no idea what guilt felt like and now it is a pretty constant feature of my daily life! From the moment she was born - guilt about the way she was born, guilt about not breast feeding for long enough, moving her out of our room too soon, too much routine, not enough routine, having the tv on sometimes, not home cooking every single thing she eats, not using disposable nappies etc etc etc and now work and childcare choices are no exception. And in retrospect the guilt almost always comes from the perceived judgements of female friends, relatives or colleagues. It is exhausting! And my DH never experiences this guilt, not about any part of Dd's upbringing. When he gets together with friends who are dads, or colleagues at work, the extent of the conversations they have will be something like "getting much sleep/beer/action in the bedroom?!". Or perhaps "who looks after your dd now that your dw is back at work?"..."she's at nursery"... "cool". And that's it.
To the poster who said there is worse to come, unfortunately I imagine you are right - I predict there is a whole world of issues like diet, childcare, school choice, owning and using a phone or iPad, access to tv, curfews, clothes etc etc for us women to judge each other about and I just need to thicken my skin and keep my head down. I don't mean to sound anti-women and I should say that these judgements and criticisms have come from the minority, but enough for it to chip away at my confidence in my decisions. Most of my friends and thankfully all of my family have been nothing but supportive. I just feel irritated that throughout what has undoubtedly been the hardest year of my life it has exclusively been other women who have made me feel judged, guilty or insufficient. Shouldn't we be sticking together and supporting each other?!
Zigzoo thanks for the book suggestions, they look great. And I forget who said they are sure they accidentally offended a breast feeding mum in the past by offering her privacy, I have done the same thing! To a colleague who brought her baby to work and said she needed to feed her, and I said oh I'm sure there will must be a private office or room spare you can use! Am mortified looking back, this was long before I had dd and I genuinely thought she would want privacy. Still feel 😳when I see her now!

[Chubfuddler]

I know lots of people who have children under 12 months in full time childcare. Funny how we all move in different circles, eh?


What ^^they all said about sisterhood/patriarchy/the two possible reasons men don't comment.

[Chubfuddler]

And my DH never experiences this guilt, not about any part of Dd's upbringing. When he gets together with friends who are dads, or colleagues at work, the extent of the conversations they have will be something like "getting much sleep/beer/action in the bedroom?!". Or perhaps "who looks after your dd now that your dw is back at work?"..."she's at nursery"... "cool". And that's it.

That right there is the patriarchy at work. It is presumed all the adaptation and accomodation falls on you.

[SplitHeadGirl]

I hate the term 'sisterhood'. It just seems to be used by people in a negative way, who have a problem with one or two women, and use that to insult ALL women and imply all women are just out to tear each other down. A hell of a lot of women are very pro-women....you just have to look here to see that.

[LRDLearningDomHome]

Best of luck, hoping.

[LadyClariceCannockMonty]

'"Oh, would you Like to call my husband and ask him why he isn't part time too? Here's his number."'

THIS a million times.

Oh, and fuck 'em.

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

11 months is not 'that young an age' to be in FT childcare. ML is around 12 months and it's not paid for the last 3 months (and paid at pittance for most of it) so 11 months is perfectly normal.

Agree with MRD, Chubfuddler etc. Men are cunts to each other all the time and they don't get hit with the 'brotherhood' guilt trip.

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

Also most jobs (in the commercial sector) just don't get approved for flexi working or reduced hours. It really is not that easy to request 4 days.

Having worked 4 days per week, it really is the worse of all worlds. You have to do a 5 day workload and are guilt tripped every time you aren't there / end up going in for meetings / working extra hours / on your blackberry all day on your day off. Much better to do 5 at strictly 9-5.

(NB: slightly off topic but earlier this year I read an article when I was in the States about 'employer theft' - this is what their unions call employers who steal unpaid time off their staff - unpaid overtime / longer hours / working & in contact while on annual leave etc. I really like this phrase and have started reminding myself of it when I don't spend all evening on email like my colleagues.)

[Xmasbaby11]

I am so with you OP! I went back full time at 8 months and DD full time in nursery. Like you, we both work reasonable hours. I don't work one afternoon a week, have good holidays and often pick her up early. I do feel judged by both men and women. It's a surprise, in 2013!

I love my job, and worked hard to get it. I wouldn't dream of giving it up, but if we could afford it I would prefer to do 3 or 4 days. I am surprised how many parents can afford to work part time - but then most people I know in this position get free childcare/handouts from their parents.

[NiceTabard]

I went back to full time work recently (and it's BRILLIANT ) my kids are still young-ish though. 3 and 4 when I went back.

I have seen some people startle a little when they hear how old my kids are, and certainly I am sure that some on my team are a bit judgy about it but they don't say anything.

The people who ask are all women with children - and the reason they ask I guess is that they have been in the same "boat" with mat leave and looking after kids generally being considered a woman's job so they have kind of been through all this thinking and decisions and - this is the important bit - because women get lambasted about whatever they do re kids, the whole topic is drenched in emotionally laden difficulties.

So most women want to think they did the right thing (whatever that was). So if someone else does something different there is this whole justification to themselves thing, which can lead into defensiveness.

My advice:
You don't have to tell people stuff, you don't have to launch into great long explanations. Remember that if you feel they are slating you what they are actually trying to do is make themselves feel OK with their choices in what is a toxic environment for this stuff. It's kind of not about you, almost, it's all about them.
Remain PERKY and smile and everything is FINE and baby is super happy and everything's peachy and change the topic of convo. Don't get drawn into it.

I know I start explaining too much when I feel challenged, even when someone has just asked a perfectly normal quesiton like how old are your kids and I launch into a detailed rundown of their childcare arrangements So if you are doing that stop it!!! Answer teh question and move away from the subject.

I will try to take my own advice as well

[LRDLearningDomHome]

'Wouldn't it be lovely to just be allowed opinions just like men are?'

Don't be ridiculous woman.

Why, men have earned the right to opinions by honest graft, swear, tears, and voting generations of voting. We gels should be making the Earl Grey/ fettling the ferrets and letting them run the world as they will.

(I'm not sure why I'm visualizing Edwardian Upstairs/Downstairs social divisions here, but could be something to do with the archaism of the propositions.)

[LRDLearningDomHome]

There should probably be more commas and more 't's in there.

It's a sign of my inferior feminine mind.

[KaseyM]

OTOH I think why do we expect women to get on with other so well. Men don't love each other all the time. Why should we? It's part of this feeling that we need to be held to a higher standard than men in order to justify having equal rights.

OTOH I do feel disappointed when women come up with sexist shit of the misogynistic direction but you have to remember that everyone comes to a conversation with their own baggage, their own agenda to prove. And it feels so much better to go along with the zeitgeist than go against it.

At the end of the day it's just easier to get away with saying shit to women cos they're generally less scary.

[LRDLearningDomHome]

YY, spot on kasey.

We are all different - men and women.

I get down when anyone comes out with misogynism but I do see why it's sadder when it's other women, even if it shouldn't be, because you naturally think 'but you should be on our side!'.

I think you're spot on about it being less scary to say shit to women, too.

[KaseyM]

And YY to NiceTabard about women feeling the need to justify themselves. When it comes to work and children mothers are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Go back to work and it's "do career women make bad mothers?" posters. Be a SAHM and you're seen to be taking a holiday or living off your spouse.

So these women probably feel the need to justify their own choices by questioning yours.

[Hopingitwillallbefine]

Mrs and LRD, I definitely did not mean to suggest that women should not be allowed to have their own opinions or express them - I admit I have a LOT of opinions of my own about other women's choices as mothers and otherwise - some may not be fair and some may be considered controversial. But I don't think it's ok to express these opinions to other women when it will clearly make them feel bad.
I actually don't really like the term sisterhood either, I wish I had phrased my title differently. I don't think we all have to be nice to each other all the time or else we aren't being feminist or 'good sisters'. I just think it's interesting and sad that a lot of the stress I experience as a working mum comes from attitudes and expectations of other women. What is it about motherhood that seems to suddenly make us competitive, judgemental, and determined to demonstrate to other women how great a job we are doing? And I don't exclude myself from this, I have been guilty of exaggerating how great a sleeper dd is, downright lying about the extent to which I cook fresh and healthy homemade meals every day, limit/ban tv etc. But I don't think it's ok to make other women feel bad about the big stuff - work, childcare etc. And I don't think it's too much to expect the same courtesy from other women.
I guess it is a huge hornets nest of an issue and I think some of the responses here are spot on when they say it is more about women defending their own positions than criticising mine. It would just be nice if we could all promote the idea that all choices are valid and have their virtues - sahm, part time, full time, nurseries, cms, grandparents looking after the children, dads at home, etc etc.
Nice I agree with what you said and thanks for your advice. Yes I constantly over explain when I feel defensive and end up feeling really pissed off with myself! For example when people ask if how many days I'm working now I immediately adopt an apologetic demeanour and a cringing look on my face and ramble on about needs must, if only I could win the lottery, am always home by five, we just make the most of the weekends, not ideal but what can you do blah blah blah and in my head am thinking SHUT UP!!

[LRDLearningDomHome]

Oh, no, I didn't think you were suggesting that at all!

I thought that this was the issue, though? That it is shit how differently men and women are expected to behave.

If you were a man, I don't think people would be asking you these questions - and if they did, you would be in a much better position to shrug them off confidently.

This is the thing, as you say. We're encouraged to feel horribly guilty and/or to assume it's ok to be judgy. It's shit, and I'm really sorry it's getting to you right now.

[DespicableYou]

"when people ask if how many days I'm working now I immediately adopt an apologetic demeanour and a cringing look on my face and ramble on about needs must, if only I could win the lottery, am always home by five, we just make the most of the weekends, not ideal but what can you do blah blah blah"

And herein lies a huge part of the issue, I suspect.

Perhaps they're suggesting you drop a day, or rope in grandparents because you're telling them this stuff?

Better just to reply "five days a week" with a big smile, and then move on to "so how are you, anyway?"

[TheDoctrineOfAllan]

Ok hoping, you need to stop justifying. How about:

"I work five days per week and still get to see my daughter for two hours every evening, it's lovely"