Fucking hell, Nigella picture, WTF? [includes links to upsetting images]

[BoffinMum]

twitter.com/suttonnick/status/346017840106704898/photo/1

Tomorrow's Sunday People cover. Where do we even start with this?

[HibiscusIsland]

Could it be that she said her glands were swollen and he was feeling them? (Sorry if already been mentioned and discounted, not read the whole thread.) Can't think of an explanation for the hand over mouth though

[AgentZigzag]

'I think you need to be careful about intervening in domestic situations like that, jumping in probably isn't always the best thing.'

Isn't that the problem generally? That people don't think it's their business, or they think they must have misread it (because nobody assaults someone in a public place in broad daylight, which is bollocks of course).

I did similar not long back where I managed to justify palming off the responsibility I should have taken to do something onto the thought that 'other people are sorting it'.

I agree that wading in on a few static (and I thought pretty sinister at face value) pictures might be jumping the gun until she says something herself, but people have every right to react to them.

[HotCrossPun]

Hibiscus Have you looked at all of the pictures?

He isn't feeling her glands.

[HotCrossPun]

I agree AgentZigzag

And I don't like it being called a 'domestic situation' either.

Take out the fact that they are married, one person is attacking another. It's assault.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

I think it's difficult as well because in the pictures it looks like she's taking it very calmly. If she were screaming for help, someone would help, but if you were in a restaurant observing Nigella Lawson from the telly being quietly throttled by her husband.....who knows how you'd react?! Or how they should react. Should you go over and ask if everything is ok? Run over and yank him off of her? Call the police? Scream for him to stop? I don't know and I guess your average diner doesn't either.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

It's completely different to witnessing a stranger attack though HotCross and to pretend it isn't is stupid.

[CrystalDeCanter]

Really saddened by this. I always admired Nigella for her intelligence, and appearance of living life well, especially after the tragic losses of her dh, sis and mum. It's awful to think that her current marriage to the shit Saatchi could be a miserable life of dv.

If the pictures are as they appear I really hope she can LTB. Rooting for you Nigella (if you're a Mner).

[HotCrossPun]

Outraged I really think you should take a look at all the pictures, there are several.

She is not 'taking it calmly,' and witnesses said he was shouting at her beforehand and she was trying to placate him.

How is it different to witnessing a stranger attack? We know they are married because they are in the public eye.

If you saw a man throttle a woman a bar or a restaurant would you not get involved in case they were in a relationship?

You don't have less rights when you are married. Assault is still assault.

[HotCrossPun]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigella-lawson-attacked-husband-see-1955564

[OutragedFromLeeds]

I've seen all the pictures. She doesn't look like she's screaming for help in any of them.

If you intervene in a stranger attack, you stop the attack (hopefully) and help the victim and that should be the end of it.

In a domestic violence situation you stop the attack and then what? She LTB and lives happily ever after? Of course not. She goes home with him. Or maybe she doesn't, but he comes round later. Then what? Are you there then to intervene? No.

She's been married to him for years, I doubt this is an out of the blue attack. She obviously stays. Domestic violence is FAR FAR more complicated than a stranger attack. I think if you really think about it you can see why.

The difference between a couple in a restaurant and two strangers in a restaurant is usually quite clear.

Assault is still assault obviously, but how it's best dealt with will depend on the situation.

[IAgreeCompletely]

I don't think you can tell what is happening in the photos

There are lots of assumptions being made on this thread.

I don't know what is going I but neither does anyone else on this tread.

[AgentZigzag]

Unless you know her personally, it is a stranger attack isn't it?

I thought she could have been telling him something so distressing she accepted him doing that to her because she felt she deserved it (her hand on his hand and kissing him is a bit creepy).

But like bullying, the uncomfortable thing isn't necessarily about them, it's about why all the people didn't make the call to involve the police (which I'm sure the paper would have reported).

I know why people don't is complicated for all sorts of reasons, and I don't want to, but I can't help but be interested in what she might say about what happened.

[HotCrossPun]

^A couple on the adjacent table, who briefly chatted with Nigella earlier, turned round and gasped in alarm as they saw her in distress.

She dabbed her eyes on a linen napkin as Saatchi tapped his ­cigarettes impatiently on the table.

Nigella then downed her glass of red wine in one gulp and began to talk, her voice trembling.

She seemed to be trying to pacify her husband, placing a hand on his left wrist as it lay on the table.

At that moment she leaned over and kissed his right cheek.

?It was utterly shocking to watch,? said one onlooker. ?I have no doubt she was scared. It was horrific, ­really. She was very tearful and was ­constantly dabbing her eyes.

?Nigella was very, very upset. She had a real look of fear on her face. No man should do that to a woman. She raised her voice and got angry but at the same time was trying to calm him down, almost like you would try to calm down a child.

"The kiss was a strange thing. He was being ­intimidating, ­threatening.

?And yet she kissed him. She ­appeared to be a woman who loves him but was clearly unable to stop him being abusive, ­frightening and ­disrespectful to her.?

Saatchi, 6ft and 17 stone, marched off, leaving his wife sobbing at the table and ­grasping her mobile phone as he got into a car the couple had waiting.^

I don't think its difficult to work out she wasn't 'screaming for help.'

Most victims of domestic violence don't run and scream for help when they are attacked, they take it because the abusive relationship has conditioned them to do so, they are scared and quite often they can't see any way out.

Add in to that the fact that she is a celebrity, and the fact that if she made a scene everybody would know what was going on and it's understandable that she reacted the way she did.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

I think a stranger attack refers to the victim and the attacker agent, not the victim and the witness.

She's a stranger to me, but not to her husband.

[AgentZigzag]

But like a poster said further up the thread IAgree, in 13 years of marriage, at no point has DH put his hands anywhere near my throat and could be interpreted as him throttling me.

And if anyone but 3 YO DD2 (and I might push away DD1) tweaked my fucking nose, I'd fucking punch the bastards out.

The indignity of it! In a restaurant!

It's such an intrusive thing to do.

(keeping in my mind that it might not be as it appears)

[OutragedFromLeeds]

'I don't think its difficult to work out she wasn't 'screaming for help.'

Most victims of domestic violence don't run and scream for help when they are attacked, they take it because the abusive relationship has conditioned them to do so, they are scared and quite often they can't see any way out.

Add in to that the fact that she is a celebrity, and the fact that if she made a scene everybody would know what was going on and it's understandable that she reacted the way she did.'

Exactly hotcross, so is leaping into the situation and having a possibly violent confrontation helpful? Call the police, see her after and make sure she is ok, offer to help her, even take the photographs for evidence, but striding in and getting involved is probably not going to be helpful to her.

[hopkinette]

"Ha! Ha! I fondly remember the time my husband put his hands around my neck and squeezed it affectionately in public!" SAID NO ONE EVER.

Imagine being so hysterically determined to deny that rich men can be abusive cunts that you could look at those pictures and be confused about what they meant. WOW.

[AgentZigzag]

Mmm, I see what you mean Outraged.

That there are more possibilities for interpreting it than if they were strangers to each other.

Which is true of course.

That she must have accepted some level of it to be not jumping up calling for assistance. That she would be the better judge of something untoward going on because she's in the situation, if she's not indicating she needs help then she must be OK.

But like other people have said, your thinking can be skewed/distorted by the abuse, which not everyone in the restaurant would have used when they judged the situation.

[HotCrossPun]

I didn't say have a 'violent confrontation,' that would be the worst thing to do.

What I mean is if I were in that restaurant and saw the scene that those pictures depicted and witnesses described, I would have went over.

Rightly or wrongly it wouldn't come in to my head to study the whole situation and work out the what should be done for the best.

When you say that people should 'see her after and make sure she is ok' - what do you do? Wait patiently at the side of the table until he has finished shouting and squeezing her throat?

[OutragedFromLeeds]

Agent I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying there is really any 'possibilities for interpreting it' as anything other than assault. I am not saying that because she isn't screaming she doesn't need help.

What I am saying is that her fellow diner leaping across the table and yanking him off of her is not the help she needs.

She obviously wanted to keep him/the situation calm, let her do that and then help. Call the police. Try and get her on her own and ask if she needs help. Even the photographs may be helpful. Escalating the situation is not going to help her.

If you witness a stranger attack, by all means leap in and pull the attacker off.

Domestic violence is similar to child abuse in that sense. It doesn't help the child if you anger the violent parent. Call the police, call SS, follow them. Only physically intervene if you have no other choice.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

HotCross I know you wouldn't intend a violent confrontation, but if you intervene in that sort of situation that is likely what would happen.

Obviously it's a judgment call, if you felt it couldn't wait then you have no choice but to intervene.

All I'm saying is, often in a domestic assault situation rushing in is not the best form of help for the victim. If you can wait until the situation has diffused a little it may be better.

[Chubfuddler]

If this is what it appears, I really really hope she gets help and gets out.

[May09Bump]

I'm very sad for her - I remember the documentary about her family dealing with her Husband having cancer / dying (they were such a great couple) She is a brave and kind lady, who I thought had found happiness and married again. No one deserves to be treated like this by anyone - let alone someone who is suppose to love you.

I hope she gets the help she needs and he gets locked up.

[AgentZigzag]

But if you think of people in abusive relationships Outraged, who stay in them for sometimes decades at a time, as having a veil over their eyes regarding how acceptable what happens in their relationship is, having strangers feel so strongly about what they see that they break social conventions to intervene in your private relationship, may be the jolt needed for the person to see it for what it is.

Bit of a long sentence, but just as you say that it shouldn't be judged one way, it shouldn't be judged as the other either.

That there could be things stopping her from behaving in the rational way we think we would, sat snug at home not in abusive atmospheres/thought patterns.