i don't know what women are. do any of you?

[chibi]

i am asking honestly. womanness is not a consequence of chromosomes or external morphology. it is about feeling you are a woman.

i don't feel like a woman. i don't even know what that would feel like.

everyone i have spoken with has assumed i am a woman, and i have done things some people associate with women like menstruating, being pregnant etc.

i used to think that because of my external morphology and the whole giving birth thing, and people's assumptions and my upbringing that i was a woman but now i am not sure.

if you are whichever gender you identify with and feel you are, and i don't feel like a woman, (i don't know even how they feel) but am i one because i also don't feel like anything else?

Would you prefer to describe yourself as agender OP?

Hmm, I'm inclined to agree with Eleanor.

eleanor? i don't know whqt you are reading but it isnt what i am saying.

it took me a good 3 days of working myself upto ask. i asked here because it might be a safe space because i am afraid i would be ostracised by people in real life

i am not asking as a feminist or inthe name of feminism or because i am making a point

i am asking because i have wondered about this for years and it has disturbed me sometimes and i thought maybe i could have some support

Do you have to be anything ? What's wrong with just being you ?

Presumably people think you are a woman and if that doesn't cause you distress the why does it matter ?

I only really become aware of my sex and gender when there's negativity attached to it. On my own, littering about, it really is inconsequential.

Oh, honestly, anyone who does believe trans people should be forced to live a miserable life is a twit and not worth bothering with.

I do think people can probably choose gender to some extent - but that's because I think it's socially conditioned so there's an element of choice as well as an element of pressure.

What I think is more worrying is people being told 'you must act like this and dress like this' whatever their 'gender' or sex.

I can't imagine what it'd be like to have a man's body, but then again I can't imagine what it'd be like to have a different kind of woman's body.

I'd say for anyone who's upset by wondering why they don't feel the way they think they should, first thing to do is talk about it and work out why you're upset. It doesn't matter if you then decide none of the labels fit. You just need to work out where you stand and what you can do to make yourself feel better, if you can do that without hurting someone else.

What exactly is the problem OP? That you want to feel like a woman and don't, or that you don't have a word to describe how you do feel?

Littering ? Meant pottering.

Why don't know if you're a woman chibi? I assume that you don't feel like a man either. Isn't the fact enough - or do you think you have to go around feeling like a woman all the time? I don't. Do I stop being a woman when I'm for example, alone and busy with work?

it feels like everyone else is in a gender club and i am not- it is upsetting when i think about it so mostly i have tried not to for 38 years now with more success than at other times

holy shit i did not realise how upsetting this would be to talk about. i feel upset.

i dont ever feel like a woman feels or like a man feels and i am realising now just what a freak that makes me

fuck

Maybe this link will help you a little, chibi?

Chibi, do you think you have a misconception about how a woman should feel ? I don't sit surrounded by an otherworldly feeling of womanliness or think womanly thoughts. Nor do I feel any pride or horror about what I am. There isn't a sense of peace or tranquility from having sex and gender matching. There is just an unremarkable nothingness to it. It's the lack of any discomfort or awareness of being a woman that gives me my sense of me.

Does any of that make any sense at all ?

chibi you are not a freak, lots of people on this thread alone have said they don't positively feel like women.

And please, you are not a freak. You're just you, like I said before. :) There are other people who feel like you do - if you read the link, I think you'll be the agender type.

chibi I don't think what you are describing sounds abnormal at all. I have no feelings I could describe as feeling "like a woman". I don't believe gender categorisations - male brain / female brain - are helpful for women and they are deeply patriarchal.

chibi.
I don't feel like I'm in some gender club either. I know what my sex is, but I also fail at a lot of gender role things.

You're not a freak, chibi. It does strike me though that you might get more support on a forum that is more oriented toward genderqueer/nontraditional gender identities. On MN the whole gender identity debate has become very loaded, especially in FWR, after a series of quite heated threads about transgender people and feminism that, while pretty irrelevant to your question, stirred up some strong feelings.

that link did help- i might be agendered

I found this book quite thought-provoking on the subject of nonstandard genders, too.

manatee if you know of these forums could you message me or something please

I'm very pleased that it helped, chibi. That might be a more useful place to ask your questions too, as OTHManatee suggests? Far less likely to get jumped on there. :)

oh duh the link was a forum,of course. i was too busy reading the words and not noticing the context

i will check it out, thank you very much

chibi. I think for everyone, the experience of gender is individual, so your feeling of womanly/ness or not is only yours, and therefore no one will feel womanly in the same way, if at all.
For me I have never particularly felt 'female' and had no particular concious thought about my emotional/psychological experience of woman. However I spent /wasted a lot of time fighting against the expected physical projection of woman, clothes/toys/friends/games as a child. I positively hated my breasts when they appeared and still find them somewhat revolting. My construct of me is as violet, not as woman. I have found a use for them (breastfeeding) which has made me feel more positive about that part of my body.
But I felt (surprisingly) bereft after my hysterectomy, and that I was no longer woman. Having NEVER particularly identified as one beforehand. I have decided that Im probably a bit odd. But Im ok at that, as Im not keen on joining any herd.

I feel like I live in a woman's body, but my brain, my mind, my essential self is not gendered. Gender to me is just the external packaging.
But I always thought everyone felt like that. It was quite surprising to me when I realised they didn't.

I don't want to upset OP or anyone else but I'm also getting upset by the whole discussion. So please excuse me...but isn't the whole genderqueer/ agender thing sexist...? Like you need a special identity for people who don't feel like they fit into a gender roles (made up social construct)...? Sorry I may be wrong.
I'm feeling a bit shit atm at my own lack of stereotypical femininity, a bit like a failed woman actually