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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nivea's "Dare To Dip" - more "Dare To Strip (and then be ogled...)"?

126 replies

ZebraOwl · 12/05/2013 01:02

Was in Covent Garden yesterday & was a bit confused by the presence of a giant fishtank. Full of women. Whose heads you couldn't see, just their bodies. It drew a massive crowd. Mostly of men. Most of whom were taking photos &/or filming & a large number of whom were passing comment on the bodies of the women involved.

The Nivea Dare To Dip experience was (as far as I can make out) for women only. Already sexist there. You couldn't see the women's faces (apart from when when they hung over the top on command for publicity shots) so they were depersonalised in a way that makes perving over them seem more acceptable to a lot of people. After they came out of the pool they were sent (wrapped in not-overly-generous towels) to sit in a little seating area that was at ground level, just separated from the gawping masses by a little picket fence.

It really really did NOT feel this was about empowering women. At all. It will have generated lots of attention for the brand, as was their intent, but the women involved were being seriously leched over. When I walked past it on my own on my way to meet my friend a group of men were discussing who in the crowd they'd like to see in the pool (mixed views on me as they could see my "nice long legs" as I went past but they couldn't tell what my bust looked like because I was wearing a raincoat over a fleece) & another bloke was on the phone telling his mate to get over there to join the perving fun.

The whole atmosphere of the thing made me feel really pretty sick. The friend I was with when we went back past it on our way to the Opera House felt the same way. Both of us tweeted Nivea UK with our views but neither of us have had any reply despite the account being busy spewing out stuff related to the event.

Was I just being crazy-oversensitive, or do you think I was right to tell Nivea I'll not be buying their products again because they promote the objectification of women?

OP posts:
nailak · 12/05/2013 17:20

^ but feminists say the same thing about those of us who choose to cover up, seems to be that there is an acceptable amount of skin you have to show to be a feminist, but past a certain amount showing it is unacceptable again.

MiniTheMinx · 12/05/2013 17:21

Why do people have to "do" everything in public to feel empowered, why do we seem to need the validation of strangers to know we are worthwhile human beings.

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:22

AnyFucker - that's cool. But the fun part about all this is, the opinion about what is or isn't empowering isn't down to one person or group - it's an individual decision. It's when the individual or group tries to impose their opinion on an event they weren't even a part of (and for the majority of this thread, is happily hearing second hand), well, that's a bit of a problem, no?

Sunnywithshowers · 12/05/2013 17:25

If getting semi naked in public were so empowering, why don't powerful men do it?

AnyFucker · 12/05/2013 17:26

Ween, you (as an individual) are equally telling us naysayers that we are wrong.

Stale mate

AnyFucker · 12/05/2013 17:27

If it didn't happen in public, it didn't happen ?

NiceTabard · 12/05/2013 17:27

Discomfort at people covering their faces is a cultural thing rather than a feminist thing though nailak. Lots of people in the UK who aren't feminists have difficulty with that as well. It's probably a topic for another thread.

FWIW I feel quite comfortable with nudity - it's only flesh. What I don't like is the fetishisation of body parts - usually female, the extreme objectification of people - usually female, and the societal pressure to feel unhappy with one's appearance - the pressure being heavier on females.

I wouldn't give a rat's arse if everyone went around naked, personally.

ithaka · 12/05/2013 17:27

weenwee, obviously, you are free to make whatever choices you want (thanks to feminism Wink) However, can you not see that the event could look pretty grim to some posters? And that 'well, I enjoyed it' is not a comprehensive response to issues some posters have raised?

TunipTheVegedude · 12/05/2013 17:27

What a revolting sexist event. Definitely won't be buying Nivea any more.

3leftfeet · 12/05/2013 17:28

The whole idea was to promote and reinforce the fact that people come in different shapes and sizes. We all have issues with the way we look and have parts of our bodies that we want to change. There is nothing wrong with that. But by receiving positive responses from the crowd of onlookers, this promotes the fact that we are all in the same boat and will hopefully go a long way to reducing the drastic measures that many people go to in order to change the way they look.

MiniTheMinx · 12/05/2013 17:29

Surely if you have a poor self image wouldn't it be just as empowering to take a dip in any public swimming bath. Why feel the need to travel to London to have strangers ogle at you. The only winners in this are Nivea, I bet their balance sheets will be empowered!

CoalDustWoman · 12/05/2013 17:29

I'm really glad you got something out of it. And i get that it perhaps needed to be a BIG gesture to be significant and meaningful. Would it have been as powerful if it had been behind closed doors, with only other participants watching?

I don't want to spoil your personal experience - i'm just trying to understand the taking your clothes off in front of strangers empowerment thing.

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:30

Tabbard - if you wanted to, what the hell do I care? Maybe you're working through some issues in your life, maybe you want to break into feminist porn, maybe you just want to, the point is: it doesn't affect me. Be it wear a burkha or set up in a glory hole, really doesn't change my life. Some people will denigrate you for it, some will laud you for it, I honestly couldn't care.

NiceTabard · 12/05/2013 17:30

Why do so many people have issues with the way they look?

Thanks in large part to companies like Nivea.

Why is it only women who are encouraged to take their clothes off to feel better? Has Gok Wan ever done a show where men got their kit off (maybe he has - I don't watch it - but the ads always seem to be women).

MiniTheMinx · 12/05/2013 17:30

3leftfeet, hang on, if we all become empowered to accept and love the way we are, surely Nivea will sink. No one will buy beautifying cream if they feel they don't need it.

CoalDustWoman · 12/05/2013 17:31

The photos of the women on the fb page seem to be chosen within a fairly narrow size range.

UptoapointLordCopper · 12/05/2013 17:32

I'm boycotting Proctor and Gamble for being "Proud fucking sponsors of mums" during the olympics (italics mine), Dove for reinforcing the idea that how you look is so important, and now Nivea. I'm going to have to learn how to make vegetable soap soon, aren't I?

AnyFucker · 12/05/2013 17:32

On this link also posted above (and meant to be in the "for" camp, the only onlookers appear to be bald men in anoraks

Perhaps it's just the camera angle Hmm

NiceTabard · 12/05/2013 17:33

Maybe you should care more about what other people do, weenwee.

I find your response very harsh. The cult of the individual has gone too far IMO.

MiniTheMinx · 12/05/2013 17:34

But you do care what people think weenwee because you took your clothes off in public seeking the validation of strangers. So I think you care.

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:36

CoalDustWoman: Let me ask you: Why do I have to celebrate myself indoors, hidden away? Why can't I say "This is me, this is who I am, I went through hell, I am alive, and dammit, I'm gonna make a huge splash" and show other women (because gasp there were wimmin in the crowd!) that I can do what I want, where I want, on as large or small a scale as I like? Or can I only be empowered on someone else's terms?

And as for taking off my clothes in front of strangers - I hope you've never been to the Serpentine, where people are sunbathing right next to the cafe with fully clothed people. Or hell, been to the beach when some people go swimming while others sit in their clothes reading a book. Because while the first poster may have liked to play up the scandal, we didn't stand there and strip down while Burlesque music played - we walked up in our cozzies, jumped (or went down the ladder), swam, and laughed.

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:36

MiniTheMinx: Why don't you read my blog post about it then see if that question stands?

AnyFucker · 12/05/2013 17:37

it is the actual epitome of caring what people think to travel into central London and take your clothes off on a chilly day in order to immerse yourself in water for no reason that makes sense at all

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:38

I'm sorry, NiceTabbard. Am I not being a good enough girl for you? You let me know what's considered proper nowadays, and I'll do that. After all, you appear to be among the elite arbitrators of good and bad behavior for women, I'll let you tell me what's proper for me.

weenwee · 12/05/2013 17:39

CoalDustWoman: Again, read my blog post where I clearly explained that every woman was photographed and asked if they would like to upload the photo immediately to fb, or have it emailed to them privately at a later date.