Nivea's "Dare To Dip" - more "Dare To Strip (and then be ogled...)"?

[ZebraOwl]

Was in Covent Garden yesterday & was a bit confused by the presence of a giant fishtank. Full of women. Whose heads you couldn't see, just their bodies. It drew a massive crowd. Mostly of men. Most of whom were taking photos &/or filming & a large number of whom were passing comment on the bodies of the women involved.

The Nivea Dare To Dip experience was (as far as I can make out) for women only. Already sexist there. You couldn't see the women's faces (apart from when when they hung over the top on command for publicity shots) so they were depersonalised in a way that makes perving over them seem more acceptable to a lot of people. After they came out of the pool they were sent (wrapped in not-overly-generous towels) to sit in a little seating area that was at ground level, just separated from the gawping masses by a little picket fence.

It really really did NOT feel this was about empowering women. At all. It will have generated lots of attention for the brand, as was their intent, but the women involved were being seriously leched over. When I walked past it on my own on my way to meet my friend a group of men were discussing who in the crowd they'd like to see in the pool (mixed views on me as they could see my "nice long legs" as I went past but they couldn't tell what my bust looked like because I was wearing a raincoat over a fleece) & another bloke was on the phone telling his mate to get over there to join the perving fun.

The whole atmosphere of the thing made me feel really pretty sick. The friend I was with when we went back past it on our way to the Opera House felt the same way. Both of us tweeted Nivea UK with our views but neither of us have had any reply despite the account being busy spewing out stuff related to the event.

Was I just being crazy-oversensitive, or do you think I was right to tell Nivea I'll not be buying their products again because they promote the objectification of women?

[CoalDustWoman]

But you can do what you want!

I'm just trying to understand why the validation of strangers is so important.

I don't understand your second paragraph. I don't have any problems with those scenarios. I think you perhaps misunderstand the questioning of the event.

[NiceTabard]

Why do you have to "celebrate" yourself at all? It's a bizarre concept which has been invented by the beauty industry. What's wrong with people just being comfortable in their own skins? Oh I forgot, no-one is, because of the very-same beauty industry

[trice]

Terrible advertising. Really sickening/old fashioned/wrong to see headless women's bodies hanging in a tank. Total own goal. Then to come on here and call them girls ffs. I quite like the dove ads though, I think they are quite clever.

People who took part - glad you had a nice time. There was no way you would have known how it was going to look. Hope it was fun.

[CoalDustWoman]

Oh, i see about the photos. It was the momentary validation that was empowering. I think i understand that.

[MiniTheMinx]

I have read your Blog Post. and I am glad that after everything you have been through you are feeling good about yourself.

My point still stands, we are social creatures and we rely on the validation of others for how we perceive ourselves. Its a pity though that corporate profits rely on creating perceived flaws and create and feed off those insecurities. Until Dove told me to inspect my arm pits, I didn't even think about them. Now I expect people to judge me on whether I have beautiful arm pits.

[weenwee]

AnyFucker: Travel? I LIVE here. I could have ridden my bike, for Chrissakes. We went to our local after for lunch.

It's almost as if you haven't bothered to read my post. Like, at all. That would go a long way in clearing up what appears to be obvious confusion.

[CoalDustWoman]

Sort of. In a follow the reasoning kind of way.

[weenwee]

trice - no, because it's not as if we could stand in the crowd ahead of time and see the groups ahead of our time slots. None at all.

[NiceTabard]

weenwee I just found it harsh that you said you couldn't give a fuck what others do, and if a person was behaving in a very extreme manner sexually you wouldn't care about the reasons, or wonder whether they were OK.

Of course some people do have sexual tastes that are way outside the norm and that's fine obv, but for many others who "act out" in this way it can be a sign of current problems or something in their past.

[weenwee]

MiniTheMinx: That's fine. I appreciate you took the time to read it.

[weenwee]

NiceTabard - and THERE is the point. I've got one kid. I am mother to one person. Not everyone. It's not my job to insert my nose into everyone's business. It's not my job to tell people what they are and aren't doing right in their life. I don't walk up to women in hijabs and tell them I think they should show their faces, and I don't tell strippers they have issues. I have better things to do in my day. (And we won't even get into the wide array of sexual tastes, and how what one person thinks is vanilla, another considers super kinky...)

[MiniTheMinx]

weenwee, I understand why social creatures would seek out the approval of others in the tribe, giving them a perspective, holding up a mirror. It's natural, normal. What isn't natural or in the least bit empowering is having your insecurities cashed in on by huge greedy corporations. But to say that what you have done or anything I may do or not do doesn't effect others is naive. Everything we do effects others, why else seek their approval?

[weenwee]

The good thing about it, CoalDustWoman, is that you don't have to get it for it to mean something to someone else. It can just be meaningful to them, for their own reasoning, all on their own. ;)

[weenwee]

Oh, MiniTheMinx, every single corporation cashes in on a minute-by-minute basis to people's insecurities. So if you really think the very thought of my zaftig bottom jumping in a pool really affected society at large more than the billboards down the road for every form of retail product out there (because of course only one person save me even saw this), you're vastly overestimating a pool in a marketplace.

If you really believed that everything we do affects others that much, you'd never leave your house for fear that your image (good or bad) would negatively affect someone else. At some point, you have to let other people be in charge of their responses to you, and just do your thing.

[MooncupGoddess]

If women enjoy doing this sort of thing then I have no problem with them doing it (though as someone upthread said, it's ironic that the beauty industry first makes women feel like shit for not conforming to their ludicrously OTT standards, then makes a big fuss of telling them they shouldn't feel like shit).

What I find odd though is the use of the word 'empowerment'. Surely being empowered means developing a sense of agency; acquiring power and the ability to use it. So one might feel empowered by telling one's abusive DP to fuck off/challenging a bullying boss/researching what help one's SN DC was entitled to/appealing a dodgy decision taken by one's local council, etc.

How can getting one's kit off in public be empowering? If it makes you feel better, great - but how does it give you more power?

[NiceTabard]

You genuinely literally don't care about anyone else, just about you and yours?

I think that may be why there are divergences between your views and the views of others on this thread.

[TondelayoSchwarzkopf]

There is nothing empowering about providing your body and time free of charge to a massive corporation that makes its profits telling women that their skin, bodies and appearance aren't good enough.

The last time I checked there were dozens of heated indoor and outdoor swimming pools in central London and there have been since before Saturday. I don't know why getting a free bag of Nivea makes it a unique and emotional experience.

[YoniTime]

Yup I'm not feeling like buying Dove's and Nivea's products after their stupid stunts. But they won't miss customers so it's all good

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

If you do something like this in public space - such a VERY public space too - you make every unwitting passer-by part of the event.

We all have to share public space. Some of us are mightily fed up with our public space being filled with objectifying images of women because it creates a context where it is mightily hard to just get on with life without being judged on our appearance, or judging ourselves because we've internalised those values.

Nivea's stunt really doesn't help. I have nothing bad to say about any of the participants in this event but Nivea surely knew the visual effect they were creating by placing a large glass tank full of women in swimwear with their heads obscured in the middle of Covent Garden. What the hell else is that saying except for 'Look at these women's bodies, everybody!'

I just asked DP whether he would find it 'empowering' to appear in the middle of Covent Garden in his scanties and he said 'Good god no! I stopped having that recurring nightmare after my O levels were finished'

Incidentally, I'm not at all surprised that there was someone there who was inspired to participate after watching Gok Wan's shows. This has exactly the same flavour of misogyny-dressed-up-as-empowerment that he peddles.

[weenwee]

Oh ffs...

If I watch a person walk into traffic, I will pull them out.
If I watch a person try to set themselves on fire, I will stop them.
If I hear them say they are about to shoot themselves, I will call authorities.

If I see a woman wear 6 inch heels that are uncomfortable, I won't ask her why she feels the need to conform to the traditional female beauty ideal.
If I see a woman wearing a veil, I won't stop and ask her why she feels the need to submit to her patriarchal religion.
If I see a woman at a salon get her grey hairs dyed, I won't bemoan her choice to deny her inner goddess maturing.

Why?

It ain't my damn business. Those are her choices, and how conceited would I have be to assume that just because those three women don't follow my closely defined concept of a powerful woman, that they aren't doing just fine? And if they may be silently struggling, how conceited would I have to be to assume I will be the one to 'save' them?

There aren't enough hours in the day to do what I want (and apparently defend it to people who weren't even there), where would I find the time to question other people's choices?

[MiniTheMinx]

TondelayoSchwarzkopf, it's interesting really, firstly you have every public space taken over by profiteering and now we have every experience being commodified and sold back to us.

[weenwee]

You're right ladies/womyn/whatever, I was so wrong to do this. After all, it isn't about my journey in this life, it's that you all have everyone around you conform to your ideals of what is correct and good, on your terms. That's the true meaning of feminism! Hussah! My eyes have been opened (and will immediately be lowered, lest direct eye contact negatively affects anyone)!

[CoalDustWoman]

All the women who took part have the same power they did last week. Because the limitations were internal, surely? I think that's what differentiates power and empowerment.

Shea, can you really not see the problem that posters have with a company that creates insecurity promoting themselves as the cure?

[Darkesteyes]

Going by my experience of human nature i find it very hard to believe that every single comment from every single person watching was a positive one.
People (especially in a society where women are valued more for their looks than anything else) just arent that nice IME.
But ween im glad you found it a positive experience. Im currently a size 20 (although im working on it) and after the negative comments ive had from various arseholes over the years there is no way i would have done it.

[CoalDustWoman]

Shea, this isn't about you, although I completely understand that it will feel like it is.